Eric Sprigg

Q: Cannot access Ethernet network

I have recently updated my network router and am having trouble getting things to work. My Internet access is wireless (no land line). For over 6 years I have successfully used a Netgear MBR624GU 3G Broadband wireless Router which allowed me to access the Internet as well as supporting an Ethernet physical network (with other computers, printers and a Sonos music system with iTunes library on a NAS). The Netgear router was also on the Ethernet network (all with 192.168.2.0/24 IP addresses). There was also Wi-Fi access for iPad, etc.

 

Moving now on to LTE my new contract brought me a Huawei Mobile WiFi E5577C router. This has no Ethernet port. I have managed to access the Internet via it. However, I now can't access the Ethernet network - ping reports 'Request timeout' and printers and Sonos system aren't accessible. That seems strange to me, for I thought direct access to this physical network should be easy. I have tried things like disabling the Wi-Fi but that didn't make Ethernet access work. I have set the Ethernet network with highest priority in the Service Order, Wi-Fi second. Currently I have both Ethernet and Wi-Fi configured manually (assigning Wi-Fi 192.168.3.0 and Ethernet 192.168.2.0 IP addresses, Wi-Fi with 192.168.3.2 as Router - I have also tried using DHCP but with no more success). I have also tried both with and without the Netgear router additionally attached to the Ethernet net but that didn't seem to make any difference.

 

I did think that I maybe need a different router with an Ethernet port (like the Netgear) but, since I will have to pay for that myself, I would rather know whether that is the only solution before spending the cash.

 

I assume I have understood something wrongly in this setup. If anyone can give me any tips or suggest what else I could try, I will be very grateful. If I should post any more detailed data, please let me know.

iMac (27-inch, Late 2013), OS X El Capitan (10.11.3), OWC Thunderbolt 2 Dock

Posted on Mar 22, 2016 4:07 AM

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Q: Cannot access Ethernet network

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  • by MrHoffman,Apple recommended

    MrHoffman MrHoffman Mar 23, 2016 8:41 AM in response to Eric Sprigg
    Level 6 (15,612 points)
    Mac OS X
    Mar 23, 2016 8:41 AM in response to Eric Sprigg

    You're going to have to set up some sort of IP routing or bridging from the wired to the wireless network, or you'll have to set up the local boxes with multiple network connections with separate subnets.   You might need static routes for devices with multiple network paths, but you will minimally need to have your wired and wireless networks in separate subnets.   This so that your network traffic can be set via Wi-Fi to the ISP, or via wired to other local devices.  

     

    Or get a modem that has wired and wireless.   Or one that has wired, if you're inclined to set up and manage your own network.

     

    If there's the budget and inclination to manage your own network...  My usual preference involves isolated devices for each of the major functions, and with the ISP device at the edge and configured minimally.   That is, an ISP modem device with a wired connection and a "bridging" mode for the ISP connection.   Then a locally-controlled gateway router firewall box, and a separate Wi-Fi device and preferably one with an access point (AP) mode.   Have your own gateway box provide firewall services, NAT and related.   Keep the ISP device as simple as possible.   This is more boxes up front, but when one box fails or when you swap ISPs, only the ISP modem might need to change.  The other devices will not need to change.   There are both positives and negatives to this approach, as — for instance — you also manage all of your network security and your configuration, "within" your own network "behind" the ISP modem.   The ISP techs can only get as far as the modem, and will only assist you with that part of your network.

     

    Network bridge: works like a hunk of wire in a wired network, for most considerations.  Basically transparent to IP network traffic.

    Network router: transfers IP traffic between two or more different IP subnets.  Very much visible to IP network traffic.

     

    Welcome to IP networking.

  • by Eric Sprigg,

    Eric Sprigg Eric Sprigg Mar 23, 2016 8:39 AM in response to MrHoffman
    Level 1 (24 points)
    Mar 23, 2016 8:39 AM in response to MrHoffman

    Welcome to IP networking 

     

    Many thanks for the useful reply which I am trying to understand as best my rather wonky knowledge of IP networking allows. The tips from your experience are helpful and interesting.

     

    I suspect that to solve all my problems I probably do need a different router. I am thinking of maybe buying a Huawei E5186 which has 4 Ethernet ports so that I can attach it directly to my physical network (as I had previously done with the older Netgear router). I hope with that configuration that the Sonos system will pick up the proper IP address from the physical Ethernet rather than doing its AutoIP (producing 169.254 addresses) that it does just now.

     

    I have managed to solve one problem that had been puzzling me more: why my Mac couldn't contact the NAS with my iTunes library over the physical Ethernet to which both are directly connected - I thought. This is rather embarrassing . All I had to do was power up a switch I have in a downstairs room. Just how that became necessary I cannot say, for I am sure that I have used the network for years without powering up that switch (except to access printers). I guess I must have chaged the cabling at some time though I have absolutely no memory or note of doing that. Senility, I suppose

     

    For the Sonos problem, I will continue thinking about the routing or bridging and your other advice. Thanks again!

  • by MrHoffman,Apple recommended

    MrHoffman MrHoffman Mar 25, 2016 6:57 AM in response to Eric Sprigg
    Level 6 (15,612 points)
    Mac OS X
    Mar 25, 2016 6:57 AM in response to Eric Sprigg

    With a gateway-router with both wired and wireless capabilities in-built, the box is usually configured by the manufacturer to operate the Wi-Fi network as an access point — what's also called bridging — and this means that one subnet can operate across both wired and wireless networks, one DHCP server with one pool of addresses, one gateway router route (the gateway-router's LAN-side address), and otherwise what is a fairly simple IP configuration. 

     

    When configured as an access point, a Wi-Fi device does not provide routing between the wired and wireless networks. 

     

    Subnet networking configurations can become necessary when there are multiple network interfaces on a client box such as your Mac, and when there are multiple separate (non-bridged) networks configured such as a separate Wi-Fi and wired link.   (Wi-Fi configured as an access point avoids this, as it "extends" the wired network.)   

     

    IP doesn't respond to arriving messages on the same network interface that received the packet, IP determines which interface to respond on based on the IP address (same subnet or different subnet), and looks for a route to the local or the other subnet locally, and if there's no subnet route it sends on the first configured interface.  If the target IP address is not local, then the message is set to the IP gateway router that's been configured on the client, either manually or via what was received from the local DHCP server.   (It's this detail that's messing up your local network access, most likely.   The Wi-Fi link is probably getting picked for the outbound messages.)

     

    The above probably reads like so much techno-babble, too.

  • by Eric Sprigg,

    Eric Sprigg Eric Sprigg Mar 25, 2016 7:16 AM in response to MrHoffman
    Level 1 (24 points)
    Mar 25, 2016 7:16 AM in response to MrHoffman

    Thanks again for the further detailed information. I found the explanation of message responses particularly interesting.

    MrHoffman wrote:

     

    With a gateway-router with both wired and wireless capabilities in-built, the box is usually configured by the manufacturer to operate the Wi-Fi network as an access point — what's also called bridging — and this means that one subnet can operate across both wired and wireless networks, one DHCP server with one pool of addresses, one gateway router route (the gateway-router's LAN-side address), and otherwise what is a fairly simple IP configuration. 

     

    ....

     

    (Wi-Fi configured as an access point avoids this, as it "extends" the wired network.)   


    I suppose that this is how my old Netgear MBR624GU was working. I hope that if I now get a Huawei E5186s (or similar), which has Ethernet connectors for direct attachment to my physical network, that this will offer the same simple arrangement.

    MrHoffman wrote:

     

    The above probably reads like so much techno-babble, too.

    Indeed, the whole subject is complex. I have been working away at various books (e.g. Douglas Comer, Craig Hunt) but much remains mysterious to me. I suspect one needs a good deal of practical experience to grasp all the details. I have just downloaded Nmap (and ordered the related book); I hope using that might gradually give me a greater insight into what is going on.

     

    Greetings  and thanks from snowy Austria.

  • by MrHoffman,

    MrHoffman MrHoffman Mar 25, 2016 7:36 AM in response to Eric Sprigg
    Level 6 (15,612 points)
    Mac OS X
    Mar 25, 2016 7:36 AM in response to Eric Sprigg

    I usually choose separate gadgets.   All-in-one networking gadgets can be nice, if you're in the design target.   But if you're running a more complex network or are more directly managing your own network, then using separate boxes can have benefits.   These include simpler and incremental replacements and upgrades, and easier swaps and repairs, etc.   ISP modem connection to bridged, private gateway-router-firewall box, separate Wi-Fi box selected as an access point.  If you're running local services or local servers, then networks get a little more complex than residential client-oriented gear can support, too.

     

    I am not familiar with that Huawei, and would tend to install an Apple Time Capsule in that position in a small network; for a network configuration that's mostly client devices, and for somebody that prefers an all-in-one design.   That gets you a NAT firewall, some reasonably competent port forwarding, and can operate as bridged or router, and it gets you backup storage for local Mac systems.   If you're not looking for storage, then an AirPort — which is functionally the same as a Time Capsule, but without the storage   Time Capsule or AirPort also gets you gear that folks around here have some familiarity with, and free tools to manage the device from OS X and iOS.

  • by Eric Sprigg,

    Eric Sprigg Eric Sprigg Mar 26, 2016 3:42 AM in response to MrHoffman
    Level 1 (24 points)
    Mar 26, 2016 3:42 AM in response to MrHoffman

    I have toyed with the idea of buying a Time Capsule for backup, though the price is off-putting (compared to an external disk as I have currently). I'll think about it again. I can understand the attraction of using separate devices but probably I've been spoilt by my old Netgear router which from day one supported everything, Sonos system included, without the slightest problem. I guess I was lucky!

     

    Thanks again for the tips. I'll report back once I've installed a solution that solves all my problems.