AutoZuLaut
Level 1 (16 points)
iTunes

Q: Audiobook management: how to tag files as audiobook and keep them that way?

I have many audio books. Those were read from the CD and thus end up in the music section. ⌘ + I > Options > Audiobooks allows me to move those files into the audiobook section.

 

The issues is, that flag is not retained once those files are removed from iTunes and then re-added. The files I tagged as "Audiobook" earlier are now back to the music section.

 

I find this immensely frustrating and confusing. Is there any way to keep the files tagged correctly so that they are automatically added to the audiobooks section when re-added?

iTunes, OS X El Capitan (10.11.4)

Posted on Mar 24, 2016 1:46 PM

by Chris CA,Apple recommended
Chris CA Chris CA
Level 9 (79,451 points)
iPhone
A:

AutoZuLaut wrote:

So can a second OSX user confirm the described behavoir?

Yes.

If the file extension is m4a or mp3 and you delete then re-add, it will show up as music.

 

If the file extension is .m4b, it will be audiobook.

Posted on Mar 25, 2016 4:42 PM

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Q: Audiobook management: how to tag files as audiobook and keep them that way?

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  • by AutoZuLaut,

    AutoZuLaut AutoZuLaut Mar 25, 2016 2:03 AM in response to TMHahn
    Level 1 (16 points)
    iTunes
    Mar 25, 2016 2:03 AM in response to TMHahn

    So can a second OSX user confirm the described behavoir?

  • by Chris CA,Apple recommended

    Chris CA Chris CA Mar 25, 2016 4:42 PM in response to AutoZuLaut
    Level 9 (79,451 points)
    iPhone
    Mar 25, 2016 4:42 PM in response to AutoZuLaut

    AutoZuLaut wrote:

    So can a second OSX user confirm the described behavoir?

    Yes.

    If the file extension is m4a or mp3 and you delete then re-add, it will show up as music.

     

    If the file extension is .m4b, it will be audiobook.

  • by AutoZuLaut,

    AutoZuLaut AutoZuLaut Mar 26, 2016 3:17 AM in response to Chris CA
    Level 1 (16 points)
    iTunes
    Mar 26, 2016 3:17 AM in response to Chris CA

    Makes sense. Which brings us back to the point if this is a known issue for a missing metadata tag in the audio files? And if that, where would be a good location to send in a feature request? Or if such a tag exists, it is indeed an iTunes bug

     

    Would be great if we managed to clear that and could proceed to taking action on this issue.

  • by Chris CA,

    Chris CA Chris CA Mar 26, 2016 7:23 AM in response to AutoZuLaut
    Level 9 (79,451 points)
    iPhone
    Mar 26, 2016 7:23 AM in response to AutoZuLaut

    An audiobook can be just about any format (AAC, CD, MP3,  There is no audiobook standard.

     

    However, suggestions here -> http://www.apple.com/feedback/

  • by hhgttg27,

    hhgttg27 hhgttg27 Mar 26, 2016 8:33 AM in response to Chris CA
    Level 5 (5,407 points)
    iTunes
    Mar 26, 2016 8:33 AM in response to Chris CA

    Agreed, but AutoZuLaut has pointed out a couple of valid issues:

     

    • iTunes media kind tag appears to be held in the iTunes database only, and not included in those that are added/updated within media files.  Given that some other iTunes-specific tags have the reverse behavior, this seems a somewhat arbitrary choice on Apple's point.
    • Specifically, the OP has an issue where updating the media kind value within iTunes does not move media files from the Music folders to the Audiobook folders within the iTunes library structure.  I've yet to see any comments from other OSX users answering the question whether this is a general problem with iTunes for Mac or may be an issue specific to the OP's library.

  • by Chris CA,

    Chris CA Chris CA Mar 26, 2016 10:22 AM in response to hhgttg27
    Level 9 (79,451 points)
    iPhone
    Mar 26, 2016 10:22 AM in response to hhgttg27

    hhgttg27 wrote:

     

    Agreed, but AutoZuLaut has pointed out a couple of valid issues:

     

    • iTunes media kind tag appears to be held in the iTunes database only, and not included in those that are added/updated within media files.  Given that some other iTunes-specific tags have the reverse behavior, this seems a somewhat arbitrary choice on Apple's point.

    Which data fields that are iTunes specific get written into which tags in the file?

     

    Pretty sure there is no "audiobook" tag in any audio file format.

     

    Feel free to make suggestions here -> http://www.apple.com/feedback/

  • by hhgttg27,

    hhgttg27 hhgttg27 Mar 26, 2016 10:59 AM in response to Chris CA
    Level 5 (5,407 points)
    iTunes
    Mar 26, 2016 10:59 AM in response to Chris CA

    Example: iTunes' "Part of a compilation" flag (which is generally not used by other media players) is externalized as a tag in MP3 files (ID3v2.3 tag TCMP tag).  Although you're right that there is no specific tag for "audiobook", ID3v2.3 does include a MEDIATYPE tag which isn't used by iTunes but could be used to represent the media kind property.

     

    [Edit: the last comment about the MEDIATYPE tag is invalid, since based on the ID3 specs this is intended to capture the media from which an MP3 is captured - everything from wax cylinders to various DAT formats - and not a classified of the content of the file.]

  • by turingtest2,

    turingtest2 turingtest2 Mar 27, 2016 11:32 AM in response to AutoZuLaut
    Level 10 (85,167 points)
    iTunes
    Mar 27, 2016 11:32 AM in response to AutoZuLaut

    Here I can change a music file to an audiobook and it moves to the correct location. If you have the keep media folder organized option selected, and the source files are stored within the media folder, then they should move when you change the media kind, so there ought not to be any reason  for you to delete and reimport. If the files don't move automatically then there may be a permissions problem with your media folders.

     

    See Audiobooks on iPods for tools to make single file .m4b audiobooks.

     

    tt2

  • by AutoZuLaut,

    AutoZuLaut AutoZuLaut Mar 31, 2016 1:08 PM in response to turingtest2
    Level 1 (16 points)
    iTunes
    Mar 31, 2016 1:08 PM in response to turingtest2

    turingtest2 wrote:

     

    there ought not to be any reason  for you to delete and reimport.

    Sounds like classic apple thinking logic ("you are holding it wrong" TM). What is the "correct location" you are referring to, turingtest2? The files were correctly displayed in audiobooks. But I wanted the real files completely gone from my iTunes music folder. I use those folder in various mediacenter software and having all clumped up in one folder, is not a good idea. I want audiobooks separated. So unless you are saying, that there should be a separate audiobooks folder (outside of the iTunes music folder) where all audiobooks files are then organized, once tagged as such, I still believe we have a bug and odd behavior here. The wish to really separate the audiobook files from the music files (no matter if .m4b files or .mp3). I have zero interest and see no incentive to move any of my m4a / mp3 audiobook files to m4b - please accept this is not desired here.

     

    New findings: ITUNESMEDIATYPE metadata tag

     

    Interestingly enough, there indeed exists a metadata tag for exactly the information we are discussing here. As usual practice with Apple, documentation is really poor to non-existant. But here go the Values and what they stand for:

     

    1 - Music

    2 - Audiobook

    6 - Music Video

    9 - Movie

    10 - TV Show

    11 - Booklet

    14 - Ringtone


    But in my test, adding the tag ITUNESMEDIATYPE with Value "2" to an audiobook I am testing this with, did not have the intended result. The files still showed up in the music section.


    Really frustrating.

  • by turingtest2,

    turingtest2 turingtest2 Mar 31, 2016 1:23 PM in response to AutoZuLaut
    Level 10 (85,167 points)
    iTunes
    Mar 31, 2016 1:23 PM in response to AutoZuLaut

    If I add an mp3 audiobook to a new test library it is treated as music and the files end up in <Media Folder>/Music/<Album Artist>/<Album>. If I then use Get Info to change the media kind to Audiobook they move to <Media Folder>/Audiobooks/<Author>.

     

    If the files don't move automatically, and you have iTunes set to keep the media folder organized, then I would suspect a permissions problem. If you don't like letting iTunes be in charge of the media folder then there are utilities for moving files around. On a Mac you can probably get away with dragging them around by hand as long as they stay on the same volume.

     

    tt2

  • by AutoZuLaut,

    AutoZuLaut AutoZuLaut Mar 31, 2016 1:35 PM in response to turingtest2
    Level 1 (16 points)
    iTunes
    Mar 31, 2016 1:35 PM in response to turingtest2

    Most interesting, so indeed not a bug but a local issue on my machine. Maybe after all a misunderstanding of the settings in iTunes?

     

    settings.png

     

    So my <Media Folder> is called "iTunes Music" (which is a bit stupid, now that I understand how iTunes should behave, but let's ignore that for a second). If now I take any music album and set that files of that album to "Audiobook" the files are not moved. They reside where they are and that is iTunes Music/Artist/Album/

     

    From what you described this is unexpected behavior and a local problem on my mac. If so, it would be interesting to learn, what steps I could take to get this fixed.

     

    Thanks for your help!

  • by turingtest2,

    turingtest2 turingtest2 Mar 31, 2016 1:50 PM in response to AutoZuLaut
    Level 10 (85,167 points)
    iTunes
    Mar 31, 2016 1:50 PM in response to AutoZuLaut

    If we were talking about Windows I would point you at Repair security permissions for iTunes for Windows. I'm not at my Mac just now, so not the best position to look for and test similar procedures, but I can do so later. Or perhaps one of the other contributors to this thread can help with that?

     

    iTunes Music is the old name for iTunes Media. See Make a split library portable for advice on restructuring an older library into the modern shape.

     

    tt2

  • by turingtest2,

    turingtest2 turingtest2 Mar 31, 2016 7:11 PM in response to AutoZuLaut
    Level 10 (85,167 points)
    iTunes
    Mar 31, 2016 7:11 PM in response to AutoZuLaut

    Looking on the Mac I see I have full permission and Staff and Everyone have read access. Reapplying the permissions to enclosed objects might do the trick.

    ITunesPerms.png

     

    tt2

  • by AutoZuLaut,

    AutoZuLaut AutoZuLaut Apr 1, 2016 11:43 AM in response to turingtest2
    Level 1 (16 points)
    iTunes
    Apr 1, 2016 11:43 AM in response to turingtest2

    Here goes another round of findings. The link to Make a split library portable was most interesting, since it showed, that the iTunes library structure has changed from iTunes 8 to 9. So since iTunes 9 there is a new structure in place.


    Thanks to Apples lack of detail in changelogs I was not aware of this change. Apple has not mentioned the change in the log nor has iTunes informed the users about it.


    This KB iTunes: Understanding iTunes Media Organization explains how to update an old library. After doing that, the behavior when tagging audiobooks changed: audiobooks are indeed now moved to a separate audiobooks folder (which is just what I want and imo sane file structuring, so apple did the right thing there).


    Remaining issue

    What's still not working is, that files which I tag as audiobook, remove them from iTunes and then re-add - they still end up in the music section which is really stupid. Since the user tagged those files as audiobooks, the best bet would be to add those files to the audiobooks folder and have them show in the audiobooks section of iTunes.


    This is imo a bug and should be fixed. The tag I mention earlier does not seem to be used by iTunes itself. I also tried again, to manually add the ITUNESMEDIATYPE tag with value "2" to no avail. Those files also showed up in the music section after re-adding them to itunes.


    The thought process of apple here is beyond me. This is a bug and should be addressed. Or again others are welcome to chime in and tell me more about this process.


    I have learned a lot thanks to this thread already and am really thankful for all the input. Updating the library was overdue - I just wasn't aware.



  • by turingtest2,

    turingtest2 turingtest2 Apr 1, 2016 12:03 PM in response to AutoZuLaut
    Level 10 (85,167 points)
    iTunes
    Apr 1, 2016 12:03 PM in response to AutoZuLaut

    iTunes is on ongoing puzzle game. Just when you think you've figured something out they go and change it. There are many aspects of its behavior that I would fix if I could. The new structure was highlighted at the time, but probably only if you updated using iTunes 9.0 or 9.1. If you skipped those you probably got no hint of the change. There has been no new Windows SDK since 2009. New features aren't exposed via automation and old ones are broken. Bugs are in the eyes of the beholder. I report bugs; some get fixed, though probably nothing to do with me. Most don't.

     

    tt2

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