Royalratch

Q: UPNP, Audio and Time Capsule

I have 4th Gen Time Capsule.

 

I have an Arcam AirDAC connected to it via Ethernet. The AirDAC is an  AirPlay / UPNP enabled Digital-to-Analogue Converter for processing audio files and feeding an amplifier.

 

Arcam say the AirDAC can process any files from a AirPlay / UPNP device.

 

So I have enabled UPNP (or Port Mapping as Apple calls it) on the TC. This I have done.

 

But the Arcam app sees nothing. It sees my iPhone music library but that's a standard iOS feature. But no matter what I do I cannot browse the audio files on the shared section of my TC using the app.

 

I don't know if the iPhone pulls files from the TC then sends them to the DAC - or if its supposed to just 'direct' the AirDAC to find and process the desired files itself on the TC.

 

Basically I just want to the DAC to process my library of FLAC and ALAC files stored on the TC as they are too big to store on my iPhone / MacBook.

 

Any ideas?

Posted on Apr 6, 2016 11:19 AM

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Q: UPNP, Audio and Time Capsule

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  • by LaPastenague,

    LaPastenague LaPastenague Apr 6, 2016 3:21 PM in response to Royalratch
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    Apr 6, 2016 3:21 PM in response to Royalratch
    So I have enabled UPNP (or Port Mapping as Apple calls it) on the TC. This I have done.

    Just to be clear.. Apple does not support UPNP .. and port mapping is not the same thing at all.. when you map a port it is fixed.. UPNP is automatic system that opens ports when required but can negotiate ports which a fixed mapping scheme can never do.

    All of this is irrelevant.. upnp and port forwarding or mapping is entirely to do with remote access to files over internet.. and the plague of NAT.. which is how the router connects us to the internet.. This is not used in local lan where all ports are open by default. You can remove your port maps.. they are meaningless in this setup.

     

    But no matter what I do I cannot browse the audio files on the shared section of my TC using the app.

    There is no media server in the TC.. it is nothing more than a dumb box.. it stores files.. all the smarts must be handled by the software on a computer or iOS device. Or the media player.. which I take it the DAC is not.

    Basically I just want to the DAC to process my library of FLAC and ALAC files stored on the TC as they are too big to store on my iPhone / MacBook.

    Your player is most likely a streaming device.. it cannot see the files. Nor can the TC stream them.. it has no brains at all.

    You must connect to a computer or a smarter device than a TC.


    Now I don't know the product.. so just a quick look it says.


    In addition you can use AirPlay with iDevices running iOS7, to send music to your Hi-Fi system from Internet radio services like vTuner and TuneIn Radio, as well as music streaming services like Spotifyand Qobuz.

    The airDAC is one of the simplest ways to enjoy your favourite music from your UPnP device, iPhone®/iPad® or computer running iTunes® and brings Arcam quality sound to a whole new generation of music lovers.

     

    I think it is important for you to understand.. a TC is NOT a upnp device.. mapping ports doesn't make it one.. and this mixup of terminology is not helping.

  • by LaPastenague,

    LaPastenague LaPastenague Apr 6, 2016 4:35 PM in response to LaPastenague
    Level 9 (52,280 points)
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    Apr 6, 2016 4:35 PM in response to LaPastenague

    UPNP is confusing and I have not spent time understanding how it is being used.

     

    Searching around.. this statement is helpful.

     

    Note: The UPnP protocol that allows you to stream media over your network is not the same as the UPnP setting on your router, which is notoriously insecure. Using UPnP to stream media between computers in your own house does not require UPnP to be enabled on your router, nor does it pose any security risk.


    http://lifehacker.com/5803975/what-is-upnp-and-how-do-i-use-it-to-stream-media-t o-my-tv

  • by Royalratch,

    Royalratch Royalratch Apr 7, 2016 1:14 AM in response to LaPastenague
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    Apr 7, 2016 1:14 AM in response to LaPastenague

    Many thanks for your reply - much appreciated.

     

    What you say is clear. The reason I set up my question this way is because some threads on this forum and others have mentioned success with enabling 'UPNP' on their TC. But as you point out - what that means exactly is open to interprtation.

     

    The AirDAC is in fact a dumb box it's nothing more than a DACV with AirPlay / UPNP transfer protocols added.

     

    In short tho - is it impossible to achieve what I originally set out?

     

    Seems like the only way  may be via ARCAM's app. If it has no capability to 'browse' the TC and send the files to the DAC then I guess not. But it would literately mean pulling files from the TC to the iPhone and then pusghin out to the DAC via standard AirPlay?

     

    An inelegant solution.

     

    Shame there's no way for the AirDAC to be 'guided' by the app to just render files from the desired folders on the TC...

  • by asdog,

    asdog asdog Jun 16, 2016 9:58 AM in response to LaPastenague
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    Jun 16, 2016 9:58 AM in response to LaPastenague

    sl off topic:

    how does the security of apple's upnp differ from the common or garden variety please?

    I'd like to use a security camera that connects to my TC in this way ,for remote iOS app viewing

    many thanks for your help

    asdog

  • by LaPastenague,

    LaPastenague LaPastenague Jun 16, 2016 2:43 PM in response to asdog
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    Jun 16, 2016 2:43 PM in response to asdog

    The security of NAT-PMP is probably better than Windows world UPNP .. I do not know the full technical details of it.

     

    It is hardly relevant. The security camera will not be able to use UPNP to the TC. Apple does not speak UPNP. It speaks NAT-PMP. AFAIK security cams are not available that speak NAT-PMP.

     

    In order for your remote viewing to work you will need to open ports the old fashioned way.

     

    See AirPort - Port Mapping Basics using AirPort Utility v6.x

  • by asdog,

    asdog asdog Jun 17, 2016 3:47 AM in response to LaPastenague
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    Jun 17, 2016 3:47 AM in response to LaPastenague

    thanks LaPastenague

     

    I've been in contact with the tech support of the camera that I'd like to use and received this response :

    The cameras like other network devices only use uPnP to allow remote access to a device via IP and port number. The uPnP in a router allows for this and is more secure than just forwarding a port as the act of forwarding the port leaves the port open to any traffic from the internet.

     

    Our UCAM cameras do not require uPnP in order to be setup as these are p2p cameras that use the p2p protocol to communicate allowing access to clips and the live feed via the app, with no uPnP or forwarding required.

     

    Apple Airport routers in our experience do not have properly implemented uPnP and will not allow you access remotely via IP and port. You can check this in the app, login then select the camera you wish to access, tap Advanced Settings then go to About Device. If on this page under remote you do not see an IP and port shown rather uPnP failed this will confirm this. In cases like this the only way to get remote access via IP and port is by forwarding the camera port in the router. Remote access via the app over p2p will still work OK.


    In your opinion , what are the network vulnerabilities of implementing this please?

  • by LaPastenague,

    LaPastenague LaPastenague Jun 17, 2016 1:46 PM in response to asdog
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    Jun 17, 2016 1:46 PM in response to asdog

    Forwarding ports to a security cam is very safe. It is opening the security cam to the web.. you of course have no choice but to do that.. Unlike a computer the Camera has a fixed firmware that is extremely difficult to hack and has little use to anyone even if they do hack it. Make sure you put in place any password protection and make it decent.

     

    IMHO the camera people are actually wrong in suggesting a fixed port forward is less secure than UPNP. There are security issues with upnp itself. Having a fixed port open but directed to a webcam is not something that would bother me over much.

     

    It is kind of ironic if you need access to the security cam you need to open holes in your web security.. !!

     

    The better method to get around the problem of course is use VPN. Some of the better camera manufacturers will use VPN or you can setup yourself a VPN router.. Apple do not include VPN server or client in their routers so you would have to replace the airport to do it.

  • by asdog,

    asdog asdog Jun 23, 2016 3:02 AM in response to LaPastenague
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    Jun 23, 2016 3:02 AM in response to LaPastenague

    i've discovered the upnp aspect is simply within the home network , to establish connection between the router and the camera

    the camera connects with the outside world via p2p to the company's servers

    how might this affect the home network vulnerability please?

  • by Tesserax,

    Tesserax Tesserax Jun 23, 2016 3:11 PM in response to LaPastenague
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    Jun 23, 2016 3:11 PM in response to LaPastenague

    FWIW. That article's note is not quite accurate. There isn't "two versions" of UPnP. It true that is primarily designed as a set of protocols that utilizes multicast UDP over IP on a local network, but it can also use NAT traversal through routers that are capable of supporting it. It does this using the Internet Gateway Device Protocol (IGD). It is because UPnP does not support any type of authentication is why it is considered insecure.

     

    Multicasting is only optionally supported with IPv4 over the Internet ... but it will be fully implemented with IPv6. So, UPnP may become more of a security issue as time passes.

  • by LaPastenague,

    LaPastenague LaPastenague Jun 23, 2016 3:15 PM in response to asdog
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    Jun 23, 2016 3:15 PM in response to asdog

    p2p is not good.. Many ISP restrict it and it seems a rather crude method where standard port forwarding should be used.

     

    It still should not affect your network as the device being opened is the DVR or security cams. But it opens ports that others who have nefarious intentions can use. Most of what you have on your local network is hardly valuable enough for them to bother.

  • by asdog,

    asdog asdog Jun 24, 2016 12:14 AM in response to LaPastenague
    Level 1 (12 points)
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    Jun 24, 2016 12:14 AM in response to LaPastenague

    thanks for the advice