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Upgrading MacPro early 2008 (many questions-advice welcome)

I have a Mac Pro 3.1 early 2008 (2xQuad-Core -8 cores from 2 processors, L2 cache 12MB per processor - 32GB Memory). OS El Capitan 10.11.4

I am going to upgrade to the best of my budget's ability for getting best performance with Photoshop and Lightroom 2015 and some associated software. I am a bit out of the loop as I haven't kept up with what's happening since 2010, just as as a bystander mostly... i have been researching extensively and intensely for several weeks and it seems the more I learn, the less I certain what to do ...I will list my tentative plans and my uncertainties and questions and hope that some kind soul will offer advice, maybe share some info on where to go to get some clarification or just tell me what to do! I am not easily offended by constructive criticism.

So thanks in advance for any assistance....


1. i have an ATI Radeon 5770 in PCIe Slot 1 (which i have concerns about) and a 120GB OWC Mercury Accelsior E2 PCI Express High-Performance SSD with eSATA Expansion Ports - these are not esata port multiplier. I am not sure what to do with these, they are 6GBs ports. I was thinking a raid 0 scratch disk in one port with a couple of overly adequate or adequate ssd's (not sure what size here). I also already own 2 Seagate Technology ST2000DM001 HDD Barracuda 2TB SATAII 6Gb-s 7200rpm Cache Bare Drive brand new in wrapping.

2. My drive bays are filled with old drives. My system and applications are on a 500GB - i have a 1TB filled with photoshop files mostly psd - ( i have just read that it is best to keep files as uncompressed tiffs and I am wondering if my saved psd files can be harmed by converting them to tiff files), a 1TB partitioned into 800mb for photoshop files in progress and 200 for documents/personal files, i have the original 320gb that i was using as a small raid 0 dedicated to the photoshop file i had open and was doing saves. the 120 GB in the Mercury Accelsior I am using as a scratch disk. This screwy setup is in response to my external LaCie recently dying (this was what I wa using for Time Machine - (this drive was given to me , even I know better than to buy anything named lacie) i have everything backed up on bluray but I am aware of the precariousness of my set-up . I have a bootable mavericks and a bootable yosemite on flash drives but i am very nervous about my whole situation.

3. So I have many options, not much money and a lot of confusion about the best thing to do now.....I need sustained speed - not just fast open times - more than I need disk space.

I am considering:

purchasing some enterprise hdd on sale (5 x 500GB to 1Tb HDD) and putting them in externally in a safe raid for Time Machine connected to a firewire 800 port, or I could purchase 2 large 3GBs ssd's and put them in raid1 in my spare optical bay for time machine and then transfer offsite at regular intervals for storage ( I would transfer the other Time Machine option offsite as well).
that I will make a fusion with the 120GB and a new HDD for system and put it on the other external esata to take advantage of the 6 GBs. I am wondering if the size of the HDD would make a significant difference in performance speed. I am also wondering if doing a clean install of yosemite on a this new fusion drive and then migrating some info from the current system disk would be a good idea, or if a new download of El Capitan would be best.
i also need to buy a USB3.0 PCIe card for a couple of peripherals - with each port powered. - so that also opens up some speed possibilities.

This video card is fairly new and was supposed to be compatible with my system - but i don't understand why it is split up like it is and it appears that there is no driver installed on one of the splits. I haven't found much info and will contact customer support, but i am wondering if anyone has seen this issue.


ATI Radeon HD 5770:

Chipset Model: ATI Radeon HD 5770

Type: GPU

Bus: PCIe

Slot: Slot-1

PCIe Lane Width: x16

VRAM (Total): 1024 MB

Vendor: ATI (0x1002)

Device ID: 0x68b8

Revision ID: 0x0000

ROM Revision: 113-C0160C-155

EFI Driver Version: 01.00.436

Displays:

CG21:

Resolution: 1600 x 1200 @ 60 Hz

Pixel Depth: 32-Bit Color (ARGB8888)

Display Serial Number: 22195123

Mirror: Off

Online: Yes

Rotation: Supported

CG276:

Resolution: 2560 x 1440

Pixel Depth: 32-Bit Color (ARGB8888)

Main Display: Yes

Mirror: Off

Online: Yes

Rotation: Supported


ATI Radeon HD 5770:

Name: ATY,Vervet

Type: Display Controller

Driver Installed: Yes

MSI: Yes

Bus: PCI

Slot: Slot-1

Vendor ID: 0x1002

Device ID: 0x68b8

Subsystem Vendor ID: 0x1002

Subsystem ID: 0x3000

Revision ID: 0x0000

Link Width: x16

Link Speed: 2.5 GT/s


ATI Radeon HD 5770:

Name: ATY,VervetParent

Type: ATY,VervetParent

Driver Installed: No

MSI: No

Bus: PCI

Slot: Slot-1

Vendor ID: 0x1002

Device ID: 0xaa58

Subsystem Vendor ID: 0x1002

Subsystem ID: 0xaa58

Revision ID: 0x0000

Link Width: x16

Link Speed: 2.5 GT/s

Mac Pro, OS X El Capitan (10.11.4), Early 2008 3,1

Posted on May 1, 2016 3:02 AM

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Question marked as Best reply

Posted on May 1, 2016 7:13 AM

I think the size of your existing drives is in fact one of your bottlenecks, so I would disagree slightly with your idea that you need speed more than space. Adobe apps love big chunks of free space for scratch disk use and caches. Your setup also seems overly complicated.


Large fast drives are pretty cheap these days. You can get a 6 TB Toshiba for $200 and put it into a good external enclosure. You should also be able to install a 4TB drive inside a 2008 Mac Pro, preferably WD Black or HGST. A good enclosure for a 4TB or larger external will cost in the neighborhood of $75, from OWC.


I wouldn't invest in a bunch of tiny drives, whether they are "enterprise" drives or not.


Inateck makes an inexpensive USB 3 card.

15 replies
Question marked as Best reply

May 1, 2016 7:13 AM in response to drexfromgrangeville

I think the size of your existing drives is in fact one of your bottlenecks, so I would disagree slightly with your idea that you need speed more than space. Adobe apps love big chunks of free space for scratch disk use and caches. Your setup also seems overly complicated.


Large fast drives are pretty cheap these days. You can get a 6 TB Toshiba for $200 and put it into a good external enclosure. You should also be able to install a 4TB drive inside a 2008 Mac Pro, preferably WD Black or HGST. A good enclosure for a 4TB or larger external will cost in the neighborhood of $75, from OWC.


I wouldn't invest in a bunch of tiny drives, whether they are "enterprise" drives or not.


Inateck makes an inexpensive USB 3 card.

May 1, 2016 9:31 AM in response to lllaass

The difference in performance between rotating drives on a 3G Vs 6G SATA bus is...


... none whatsoever, since these drives are not bottlenecked by the SATA Bus. (Even a SATA-I bus is not a bottleneck to rotating drives). These drives can source one burst off the platters at about 150 MBytes/sec, (well under SATA-I speeds of 375 MBtyes/sec) and then you have to wait for the next burst.

May 1, 2016 8:48 PM in response to lllaass

Hi Illaass - this (see below is what i bought) - this was over a month go and I was starting to figure out what I might need and went by MacGuru's recommendation - I went by the 6GBs and and i think SATA II is a typo - i noticed that a lot of rhe Western Digital say 6GBs but dont mention SATAIII--but the HGST say SataIII, or 6GBs, or some HGST say both) - yikes - so I assumed the 6GBs on the seagate indicated SATA III. Anyway knowing what I know now I surely would have bought the HGST or WD. I was going to make a fusion drive with one of these seagate disks, and now I am reconsidering using the 2 seagates as an external reaid, basialy my scatch disk for for Photoshop - I rarely get over 800GB on a file so hopefully the 2 (2T) will be sufficient.

I just read an article comparing failure rates of someHDD and seagate didn't look so good while hitachis were pretty incredible - I could handle a disk failure in the raid scratch a lot easier than on a system disk. thanks for the input - i was giong t make the fusion drive tonight but now i am goin to put it on a

hitachi....Drex

User uploaded file

May 1, 2016 10:42 PM in response to kahjot

Thanks Kahjot. OK - very glad to know that....if you have had experience with fusion drives, would you recommend putting my 120b together with a 2TB rather than a 1TD HDD? and also i was thinking of doing a clean install on new disk of yosemite instead of el capitan with the ssd , i will doing a lot of disk utility work at first - i don't care for the el cap utility. thanks, Drex

May 2, 2016 7:06 AM in response to drexfromgrangeville

I loved Seagates for many years, going back to their SCSI drives and ATA drives. They've had some compatibility and reliability problems since then, and I have been using mostly HGST since moving to Macs with SATA, with some WD Black and recently Toshiba. I think the most significant failure rates recently were in a line of Seagate 3TB drives.


I've never set up a fusion drive, but for your purposes, larger is probably better. I've been using Adobe apps since one of them was an Aldus app. Photoshop and InDesign have always worked best for me when I had large chunks of free disk space. If you are working with large, complex Photoshop images, and are allowing yourself a healthy number of History states, you need elbow room. Suppose you are working with a 500MB image, and have 25 History states. While that image is actively being worked on, you could conceivably have up to 25 preserved states of that 500GB image.


If your images are typically much smaller, you don't have to worry about scratch disk space as much, but it will still matter.


El Cap's Disk Utility is a step in the wrong direction. Some dumb choices were made, such as a non-resizable window. Whoever made that decision must never have worked on a computer that had more than one active drive attached to it. Maybe two.

May 2, 2016 8:17 AM in response to drexfromgrangeville

SATA I, SATA II, and SATA III rotating magnetic drives are all backward compatible. There is no measurable performance difference when used in the Internal bays, which have a SATA II 3GBits/sec capability, as opposed to used with a card that is SATA III 6Gbits/sec capable.


When used in a RAID, best performance is seen with very large reads OR very large writes from the SAME large file. Switching to a different file, or Reading while Writing to the same Drive eliminates the RAID performance Boost.


Striped RAID has no ability to survive a drive failure. A failure in a striped RAID wipes out all the data recorded on it.


Mirrored RAID extends the time you have to make the repair after a failure, but does NOT eliminate the need for backup. RAID is NOT Backup.

May 2, 2016 7:57 PM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder

Hi Grant - i am aware of the SATA difference and I am mainly concerned about SATAIII peripheral which are connected the 2 SATA III on OWC Accelsior in slot two and that is card is where i getting the 120 gb SSD to fuse with a HDD which to be on the safe side will SATAIII - - and it seems that there are not many sizeable STATAII drives around. And I will also be getting a USB3.0 card, for a couple of periperhals and when I can afford it, some more add-ons

I feel a little embarrassed to ask this next question - but is something i need to know -----You mentioned that reading and writing at the same time to the RAID0 eliminates the boost of the raid. Since i read your reply I have been searching for about an hour but i am not finding that specifically addresses that issue - i would only use that particular raid0 array for one session of photoshop, but during that session I often pull iup another file or have a files open for using and copying layers from one to the other. Anything that I saved during that session would be saved to a different disk. So in that way of working, am I just as well off not using RAID) ? Also I don't understand exactly when I would be writing to the array and when I would reading from the array. Is there a better RAID array, say 5 or 10 or 0+1, that would be a better situation for me. If you have the time and inclination I would very much appreciate your views.

thanks!

May 2, 2016 8:15 PM in response to kahjot

Hi Kajhot - I am going back to Yosemite and staying until something better comes along. I may have read the same report of the seagate 3T, but i have always liked seagate so i will the ones I have - i just realized i still am using the original 320gb that came with this 2008. Thank for your information as I do usually have at 20 states of history and I never really considered the numerical ramifications - so yes, with a large file, as i normally make large print at 360dpi - when I get a few layers and a few history states - I have a pretty big set of numbers for my computer to deal with. So for now i will forget the little disks and get the big ones - just have to get some on down the road a bit. again,thanks - Drex

May 3, 2016 6:11 AM in response to drexfromgrangeville

Users have been really quick to set up RAID arrays because they are thought to be really FAST. A RAID adds unnecessary complexity and is only fast when used for only one function ta a time.


Sometimes you get better performance by using separate drives: One for Source files, one for Destination (finished edits), another for Scratch, another for System. You can think of it as a RAID is good when it can stay focused on one file, and any distractions from other work will slow it down.


System is the biggest offender, because there is a pattern there of reading and writing random small files all over the place, and on a RAID made of Rotating Drives, there is almost no performance boost. Every time you have to move the drive head to a different file, you endure an additional 10 to 20 milliseconds of dead time, and the RAID speedup does not kick in until you Read the second and subsequent LARGE block of data from the same file.


If you can use multiple drives for different functions, you may not need a RAID at all.

May 3, 2016 6:40 AM in response to drexfromgrangeville

I should add that I have three of the notorious Seagate 3TB external drives. Normally I would never consider acquiring such drives, because I prefer to use decent enclosures that are easy to open, and choose exactly what drive to install. I want to be able to remove a drive from its enclosure easily if I need to use it internally or to rule out a problem with the enclosure should the drive begin to be unreliable. However, I wound up with these three because two of them were free and one was very cheap. One has been in daily service, as one of a couple of backup drives, and it has been fine except for a problem with its base. The enclosures on the three drives have removable bases that contain power and data connectors. In one case, the base failed, but Seagate was quick to respond and send me a new base to try, which has worked well. In theory this is a nice idea, and I have three bases that can be swapped as needed between the three drives: one Thunderbolt, one FW/USB2, and one USB3. But in practice, it hasn't been all that useful, and prying open the cases to extract the drives would not be fun. So I stick with OWC enclosures and buy drives separately.

May 5, 2016 1:24 AM in response to kahjot

I think Seagate is getting a bad rap for their other drives because of the 3TB - I am not seeing that any body is very enthusiastic about any make of 3TB. I am really gald you gave me the advice about getting larger drives - i have simplified my preliminary ideas and have saved some time, effort and money - I just ordered a couple of 4TB HGST, there was a good prices for the ultrastar so I got those, and also a good price on on WD Mybook for time machine backup.

There are a few more things, could do but i think i will stay here for - like you said i had things overcomplicated. -now I am fairly simple with bigger chucks that will be a big improvement for me - things will now go faster than my brain I suppose. I could do a 3.0 card for the WD Backup and my BluRay/Mstone burner, but they will work fine for now on USB 2, and i will do some more research catching with current state of things and wait around to see see what happens with USB 3.1.I have decided to try some cloud storage and get a copy of my files off-site and off my computer Backblaze/$50 a year.

Thanks again Kahjot, you helped me out and it is appreciated! I attaching a photo of my B&W cat named Sputnik - best, DrexUser uploaded file

May 5, 2016 1:37 AM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder

Grant - I am pretty much in agreement with you about the raid - I am buying 4TB internal drives and will set them up as you suggest, I got a 4TB for external back-op, plus I am going to go off-site for cloud storage. In the future I may set-up an external raid with ssd's but I need to to get back to work and do more research to catch up with current technology. I really appreciate your help with my understanding of how raid works. This new system is a lot simpler and less expensive and will be a lot better and less risky than what I have now. best wishes - Drex

Upgrading MacPro early 2008 (many questions-advice welcome)

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