SJBMatrix1999

Q: What is the correct way to extend an 80211ac wireless network with two apple extreme base stations via ethernet?

I have my house wired with ethernet and have connected as many devices via cat5e as possible. My issue is when I attempt to connect two apple airport extreme base stations together  and use the second to extend my network I lose internet connectivity.  I am able to extend without issue via wireless but since I wired the house wanted to leverage the faster wired method. 

 

Below is my network setup in a nut shell.

 

In the basement I have  my Verizon Fios Router( Gateway 80211n)  Currently configured to provide all Ip address space via dhcp (disabled wireless)

 

Small 8 port Gigabit ethernet switch wired via gigabit cross over cable between the Fios Gateway and port 1 of the switch.

 

two iMacs wired directly the fios gateway  ports 2 and 3

 

Primary apple extreme base station (we will call this downstairs for now) Wired to Fios gateway

 

Secondary apple extreme basestation wired to the Primary apple extreme basestation

 

TV wired to switch

 

Nintendo Wii U wired to the switch

 

Apple TV wired to the Switch

 

Blu ray player wired to the switch

 

My Primarily Airport extreme is configured as follows

 

connect via DHCP

 

Router address is set to the Fios Router

FOR DNS I used free dos servers like Google and Level 3

 

Wireless is set to create a wireless network

 

Security is set to WPA2 Personal

5GHZ  is enabled and both 2.4 and 5ghz are set to automatic

 

Router mode is set to off Bridge mode

 

Second or upstairs Airport extreme config

Connect using dhcp

Router address is also the Fios Router

DNS servers is blank

Wireless settings

Network mode is set to extend a wireless network

wireless network name reflects my network

wireless security match wpa2 personal

Network

Router mode is grayed out and reflects off or bridge mode

Posted on May 5, 2016 6:13 PM

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Q: What is the correct way to extend an 80211ac wireless network with two apple extreme base stations via ethernet?

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  • Helpful answers

  • by Tesserax,Helpful

    Tesserax Tesserax May 5, 2016 8:36 PM in response to SJBMatrix1999
    Level 9 (54,452 points)
    Wireless
    May 5, 2016 8:36 PM in response to SJBMatrix1999

    Second or upstairs Airport extreme config...

     

    ...Network mode is set to extend a wireless network

    Since all of the routers are interconnected by Ethernet, you do NOT want to configure either AirPort Extreme to "Extend a wireless network." This option is to be used only if the connection between base stations is wireless. Instead, both base stations should be configured to "Create a wireless network."  That is because, with them all connected by Ethernet, you have the basis for a roaming type network.

     

    With this type of network, each router will broadcast their own Wi-Fi network, but since they will all use the same network name (or SSID) and use the same wireless security type & password, all wireless network clients will see them as "one" network.

  • by Bob Timmons,Solvedanswer

    Bob Timmons Bob Timmons May 5, 2016 8:42 PM in response to SJBMatrix1999
    Level 10 (105,079 points)
    Wireless
    May 5, 2016 8:42 PM in response to SJBMatrix1999

    Unfortunately, Apple has not updated the support document that Tesserax has linked, so it is very easy to become confused if you look through the document and take it literally.

     

    For example, the support document states that the "main" AirPort router should be configured in a Router Mode to "Share a public IP address". This is the same setting as DHCP and NAT.

     

    But......if you follow Apple's instructions literally, then you will have a Double NAT error on your network.  Why?  Apple assumes that you will be using a simple modem to connect to the "main" AirPort router......but, you are using a modem/router, or gateway device.  So, the correct setting for the "main" AirPort is Off (Bridge Mode) as you now have it currently set up on your network.

     

    It would really help if Apple presented two examples in their support document........one, using a simple modem.....and the other.....using a modem/router or gateway device.

     

    Important Note......when you change the second AirPort from "Extend a wireless network" (which is not the correct setting) to "Create a wireless network (which is the correct setting, as Tesserax notes)........please be aware that the Off (Bridge Mode) setting may possibly revert back to DHCP and NAT.......so you will need to check the Router Mode setting again before you click to Update the new settings.

  • by SJBMatrix1999,

    SJBMatrix1999 SJBMatrix1999 May 5, 2016 8:42 PM in response to Bob Timmons
    Level 1 (8 points)
    Wireless
    May 5, 2016 8:42 PM in response to Bob Timmons

    Excellents points and help from both. I did exactly experience the issue as you stated. Since it was not mentioned that I must have the apple extreme base stations wired together I assume I should not and will need to reroute my cat5e as I had it previously.  I initially set up my wifi as suggested each with its own connection to the gateway but thought maybe I should ask the best way rather then assume 2 separate networks.  I plan to complete the rewire tomarrow Thanks again for the help.

  • by Bob Timmons,

    Bob Timmons Bob Timmons May 5, 2016 8:56 PM in response to SJBMatrix1999
    Level 10 (105,079 points)
    Wireless
    May 5, 2016 8:56 PM in response to SJBMatrix1999
    Since it was not mentioned that I must have the apple extreme base stations wired together I assume I should not and will need to reroute my cat5e as I had it previously.

    More confusion by Apple, I am afraid.

     

    You can connect the second AirPort to the first if you want.......or.......since both AirPorts are set up in Bridge Mode, both AirPorts can connect directly to the modem/router or gateway if you have enough ports available.

     

    As far as wiring practice, connecting both AirPorts directly to the modem/router is actually preferable to connecting the second AirPort to the first. We can explain the reason for this if you are curious.  Let us know if you want more details.

  • by pawtracks,

    pawtracks pawtracks May 31, 2016 4:21 PM in response to Bob Timmons
    Level 1 (4 points)
    May 31, 2016 4:21 PM in response to Bob Timmons

    Bob Timmons wrote:

    As far as wiring practice, connecting both AirPorts directly to the modem/router is actually preferable to connecting the second AirPort to the first. We can explain the reason for this if you are curious.  Let us know if you want more details.

    1. I'm curious if you have time to share the reason as I'm thinking I would have to run new Ethernet cabling or rethink my plan below.


    2. Clarification on using WAN ports (vice LAN) on both devices to create a roaming network.

    I'm using a simple cable modem SURFboard SB6183

    -Connected to the WAN port of a 5th generation 2TB Time Capsule in my office.  Creating wireless network 2.4GHz/5GHz/Guest network, DNS/DHCP.

    -I have an Ethernet cable coming from a LAN port of the above Time Capsule feeding a 24 port gigabit switch, which provides wired Ethernet to all the jacks in my house.


    Everything works well right now - wired and wireless.


    I want to extend the wireless network further into my back yard (stronger signal, faster speeds) and after reading quite a bit today it looks like I want to create a roaming network (vice wireless extension) since I already have numerous wired Ethernet jacks in place.


    My plan is to connect a 6th generation AirPort Extreme to the nearest (closest to my back yard) wired Ethernet port.

    My understanding is to connect an Ethernet cable from any wall jack (since they are all essentially coming from the Time Capsule via the 24 port switch) to the WAN port of the AirPort Extreme router.  Then create the same network SSID, same security type, same password BUT set it to BRIDGE mode to turn off DNS/DHCP.


    Sounds like the last piece of advice I pickled up is using an iPhone or iPad in the back yard, best practice is to turn wifi on/off so it should pickup the stronger AirPort Extreme network vice the Time Capsule network as we move inside to outside.

  • by Bob Timmons,

    Bob Timmons Bob Timmons May 31, 2016 5:19 PM in response to pawtracks
    Level 10 (105,079 points)
    Wireless
    May 31, 2016 5:19 PM in response to pawtracks
    1. I'm curious if you have time to share the reason as I'm thinking I would have to run new Ethernet cabling or rethink my plan below.

    It's probably not worth running more cable if you have already done so, unless it is an easy task.

     

    Let's say you have one AirPort Extreme set up and running.....and you connect an Ethernet cable from number one to number two AirPort Extreme. If AirPort Extreme number one has a problem next week, then most likely, AirPort Extreme number two will as well. And, it won't be that easy to figure out where to start troubleshooting because both AirPorts will appear to not be working correctly.

     

    Now let's say that you have an Ethernet switch on a modem/router or you have separate Ethernet switch. And, you connect both AirPort Extremes separately to the switch. If AirPort Extreme one has a problem, AirPort Extreme two will probably not be affected, and vice versa. It will also be easier to troubleshoot the network in the event of a problem, because you can work with each AirPort Extreme independently.

     

    So, connecting both AirPort Extremes separately to a switch is considered better wiring practice if you are designing a network.  Unfortunately, you will not have that ability in your network, since you cannot connect the switch directly to the modem.

     

    2. Clarification on using WAN ports (vice LAN) on both devices to create a roaming network.

    You have to use the WAN port on the Time Capsule to connect to the modem, so that is done. If you wanted to add a second AirPort to the Time Capsule, my recommendation would be to connect from a LAN <--> port on the Time Capsule to the WAN port on the second AirPort.

     

    Truth be known, it does not matter whether you connect to the WAN or one of the LAN ports on the second AirPort, because the second AirPort will be in Bridge Mode and all ports behave the same in Bridge Mode......as LAN ports.  There is no WAN in Bridge Mode.

     

    But, it is better wiring practice in my opinion to connect to the WAN port on other devices on the network.....if only to know at a glance that the WAN port is the port that is accepting a signal from another router or switch.

     

    -I have an Ethernet cable coming from a LAN port of the above Time Capsule feeding a 24 port gigabit switch, which provides wired Ethernet to all the jacks in my house.

    Got it. Hopefully, this is an unmanaged switch.

     

    I want to extend the wireless network further into my back yard (stronger signal, faster speeds) and after reading quite a bit today it looks like I want to create a roaming network (vice wireless extension) since I already have numerous wired Ethernet jacks in place.

    Wired Ethernet connections between routers is always the best way to go in terms of both performance and reliability.

     

    My plan is to connect a 6th generation AirPort Extreme to the nearest (closest to my back yard) wired Ethernet port.

    My understanding is to connect an Ethernet cable from any wall jack (since they are all essentially coming from the Time Capsule via the 24 port switch) to the WAN port of the AirPort Extreme router.  Then create the same network SSID, same security type, same password BUT set it to BRIDGE mode to turn off DNS/DHCP.

     

    You have the theory correct, but you may be way over thinking this.......since Apple's setup utility or wizard will automatically do everything that you mention above automatically.  All that you need to do is assign a device name to the AirPort Extreme.

     

    If that sounds too good to be true, post back for more tips.

     

    Sounds like the last piece of advice I pickled up is using an iPhone or iPad in the back yard, best practice is to turn wifi on/off so it should pickup the stronger AirPort Extreme network vice the Time Capsule network as we move inside to outside.

    That is correct. iPhones and iPads are way behind the times as far as their wireless capabilities.  If you have a Mac laptop, you won't have to do this, since it will automatically switch to the closest wireless access point as it moves about the house.

     

     

     

     


  • by pawtracks,

    pawtracks pawtracks Jun 1, 2016 9:35 AM in response to Bob Timmons
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Jun 1, 2016 9:35 AM in response to Bob Timmons

    Thank you for the very detailed response.  Everything regarding the wired Ethernet extension worked perfectly using the Airport Utility wizard after doing a factory reset of the Airport Extreme due to my earlier guess at incorrectly extending the network.

     

    I now have my Cox cable connection with IPv6 enabled (using openDNS), plus a much stronger WiFi outdoors.

    200 Mbps D/30U poolside is not too shabby!

  • by Bob Timmons,

    Bob Timmons Bob Timmons Jun 1, 2016 10:07 AM in response to pawtracks
    Level 10 (105,079 points)
    Wireless
    Jun 1, 2016 10:07 AM in response to pawtracks

    Nice work. Nothing beats Ethernet for performance and reliability.

     

    Cox has had much more trouble than other providers trying to get their IPv6 service up and running in some markets. Hopefully, your Internet connection is remaining stable.