Steven Kutoroff

Q: Does moving a file cause it to be backed up?

Time Capsule 3TB in operation since November 2013. No problems, running latest firmware 7.7.7 and it backs up the computers in the family with 760GB free.

 

My main computer is an iMac running the latest El Capitan and all other software.

Its iTunes library was initially set up with the first version of iTunes way back when and has been updated and moved to its third computer (or 4th?). No problems. But, the organization is old school, everything is under the Music folder with folders for each artist and folders for Movies and TV Shows mixed in. It is about 650GB in size.

 

I want to change iTunes to use the modern organization with Music, TV Shows, Movies, etc. folders in the iTunes Library folder. Basically, this is allowing iTunes to move files in a massive way (or I do it manually). What I don't want is for the Time Capsule to decide it has to back up 680GB of files after I do this.

 

Will Time Capsule backup a file because it is moved?

 

I am using the new iTunes Library organization on a Mac that is not being backed up, and I like it way better.

 

So. Question. Will allowing iTunes to re-organize it all (or my doing it) cause a massive backup?

 

Thanks.

Time Capsule 3TB, Other OS

Posted on Jun 3, 2016 12:04 PM

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Q: Does moving a file cause it to be backed up?

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  • Helpful answers

  • by Allan Eckert,Solvedanswer

    Allan Eckert Allan Eckert Jun 3, 2016 12:10 PM in response to Steven Kutoroff
    Level 9 (53,469 points)
    Desktops
    Jun 3, 2016 12:10 PM in response to Steven Kutoroff

    Since the move will be changing the file, Time Machine will back them up.

  • by Steven Kutoroff,

    Steven Kutoroff Steven Kutoroff Jun 3, 2016 3:46 PM in response to Allan Eckert
    Level 3 (808 points)
    Wireless
    Jun 3, 2016 3:46 PM in response to Allan Eckert

    I was pretty much certain of this. But, there was hope.

    The iMac stays old school.

    THX

  • by PaperWeight,Helpful

    PaperWeight PaperWeight Jun 5, 2016 3:08 AM in response to Steven Kutoroff
    Level 2 (358 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jun 5, 2016 3:08 AM in response to Steven Kutoroff

    If I was in your shoes I would:

     

    1. Connect your Mac to the Time Capsule via ethernet if it isn't already
    2. Turn off Time Machine
    3. Have iTunes consolidate the library Locate and organize your iTunes media files - Apple Support See the part about Find and organize
    4. Force a backup from the Time Machine menu
    5. Verify your new iTunes backup.
    6. Delete all previous backups of your iTunes library
    7. Turn Time Machine back on.

     

    That should get you a newly reorganized/consolidated and backed up iTunes library minus all the lost space on your Time Capsule.

  • by Steven Kutoroff,

    Steven Kutoroff Steven Kutoroff Jun 5, 2016 3:18 AM in response to PaperWeight
    Level 3 (808 points)
    Wireless
    Jun 5, 2016 3:18 AM in response to PaperWeight

    I tried this, not in this order.

    My system has multiple backups (CCC), so I tried deleting my library from the TC.

    Gained NO disk space on the TC according to Airport Utility. None.

    I went back week by week to see if any content was left anywhere. No sign of what I deleted.

    Made the whole process kind of useless.

    But, I did just go ahead and reorganize everything and cleaned up the few things that weren't handled.

    Disappointed in the Time Capsule Time Machine software.

    I'll turn Time Machine back on someday and what mess it makes of things.

  • by PaperWeight,Helpful

    PaperWeight PaperWeight Jun 5, 2016 12:18 PM in response to Steven Kutoroff
    Level 2 (358 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jun 5, 2016 12:18 PM in response to Steven Kutoroff

    This reminds me of a problem I had a couple years ago.

    I was trying to delete a folder from a TM back up (local in my case)

    No matter what i tried i could not seem to reclaim the space.

    In the end I suspected some corruption of the drive or directory and ended up deleting the backup and starting over.

  • by Steven Kutoroff,

    Steven Kutoroff Steven Kutoroff Jun 5, 2016 12:30 PM in response to PaperWeight
    Level 3 (808 points)
    Wireless
    Jun 5, 2016 12:30 PM in response to PaperWeight

    I should have looked this up before posting, from our friends at Wikipedia:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparse_image

     

    Mac OS X Leopard introduced the concept of the sparse bundle. Instead of a single big file, a sparse bundle is a bundle (directory) containing a number of files called bands, each on the order of 8 MB in size. This means even though to the end user the sparse bundle appears as a single file, it is composed of smaller files. As of Mac OS X 10.8, the bands are 8 MiB (8 × 10242 byte) each. When the content of the image changes, one or more band files is changed, created, or deleted. This allows backup software (such as Time Machine) to operate more efficiently.

    Sparse bundle advantages for Time Machine:

    the backup destination no longer needs to be a HFS volume (for the hard links to work and to preserve metadata), but can be any shared folder, on any server, connected using any protocol and using any file system to store the actual files

    the entire sparse bundle is replicable from one location to another; this is particularly useful when upgrading the backup storage and when the on-site backup storage needs to be replicated to an off-site backup storage. A tool such as rsync may be used to keep one or more disk images consistent across various systems.

     

    So, perhaps the sparse bundles don't shrink when items are deleted from them? The above article is unclear on what happens to space on the delete of a band. Another reference from Google states that deleted space is not recovered. Yet another reference states, "The downside is, when things are deleted, the disk image doesn't shrink automatically." http://pondini.org/TM/Works3.html

     

    I've turned Time Machine back on, but with some large folders omitted (TV Shows and Movies) to see what happens to the free space. I can turn them back on later.

  • by Bob Timmons,

    Bob Timmons Bob Timmons Jun 5, 2016 12:39 PM in response to Steven Kutoroff
    Level 10 (105,008 points)
    Wireless
    Jun 5, 2016 12:39 PM in response to Steven Kutoroff
    So, perhaps the sparse bundles don't shrink when items are deleted from them?

    Correct. If you want the sparsebundle to reflect its actual size after you have deleted files, you will need "compact" the sparsebundle using Terminal commands. Pondini has the answers. See http://pondini.org/TM/12.html, the pink box in particular.

  • by Steven Kutoroff,

    Steven Kutoroff Steven Kutoroff Jun 6, 2016 4:06 PM in response to Bob Timmons
    Level 3 (808 points)
    Wireless
    Jun 6, 2016 4:06 PM in response to Bob Timmons

    This freed up 616.8 GB on my Time Capsule.

    I'd call that a win. Soon, I'll cease blocking backup of my video.

     

    It is terrific that software exists to really manage the space. I'd be even better if it were more accessible.

    I have to read more from that web site.

    I want to manage the TC like we could back in version of Airport, see log files and such.

    Thanks.

  • by Bob Timmons,

    Bob Timmons Bob Timmons Jun 6, 2016 4:12 PM in response to Steven Kutoroff
    Level 10 (105,008 points)
    Wireless
    Jun 6, 2016 4:12 PM in response to Steven Kutoroff
    I want to manage the TC like we could back in version of Airport, see log files and such.

    Unfortunately, Apple has decided for you that you do not need to do this. We've been asking for an "Advanced" or "Expert" version of AirPort Utility for 3+ years now. Apple does not seem to be listening, or if they are, they aren't hearing.

     

    Let Apple know what you want here:

     

    Apple - Time Capsule - Feedback