german keyboard

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Level 1

10 points

german keyboard

Hello,
once I was a PC User. I switched to MBP 5 months ago and I'm wondering if anyone has the same problems. Beeing a software developer, I spent lots of time searching for necessary keys (specially the ~, \, |, [, ], {, } keys). You now may laugh at me, but it is **** of a problem if you're trying to write software and spent your time to search for keys...
At the meantime, I remapped the keyboard to fit a standard IBM layout. But I'm wondering if Apple knows about this problems, or doesn't care at all - or if Apple's going to leave the german software developers alone ?
Even more I want these characters printed on the keyboard, so they can be lit in the dark.
Does anyone know if there is kind of a replacement keyboard ? I would buy a new MBP tomorrow if it has a standard german keyboard....

(Funny, if you are using Bootcamp - things get even worse: try to find < or >
hint: press the ^ key...)

Macbook Pro 2.0, Mac OS X (10.4.8)

Posted on Dec 4, 2006 10:28 AM

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Answer 1

Dec 4, 2006 7:30 PM in response to WillGonz

you know about switching between english/german keyboards from your menubar?

System preferences>International>input menu>show input menu in menu bar
and select germany while you are there.

It is a great help for me as I write in German and English, and I can quickly change there on the menubar. The only thing is you have to remember the German/English keyboard layout from memory.

also, there is a quick way for umlauts if you are on the English keyboard.

Hold down alt/option with "u" and you will get an umlaut, and then you type either "u", "a" or "o" and you get ü ä ö. A great little trick. You also get "ß" by holding down alt/option and "s", and also the same for "e", you get é, like in Café.

Ich hoffe, dass es dir hilft..

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Answer 2

Andor72 Author

Level 1

10 points

Dec 4, 2006 9:54 PM in response to infinite vortex

Hi Ned,
I have a german keyboard but the german keyboard Apple produces doesn't fit the standard. You can take a look at it here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboardlayout#Germany_and_Austria_.28but_notSwitzerland.29

As you can see where all the []{}\~| keys are located and that their position is printed on the keyboard keys.
The MBP has a totally different arrangement of the keys, they are not printed on the keyboard and some of them are missing (the |\~ keys as I remember).

This may be acceptable for video editing purposes, but I'm wondering if they are no other people trying to write a program on a german MBP...?

(I remapped the keys already for OSX, but I'm using Bootcamp too and the mapping is even worse)

I just want to get heared by Apple, telling them that the german keyboard needs improvement.

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Answer 3

Dec 4, 2006 11:32 PM in response to Andor72

I also develop software and I can feel your pain. I've been using Macs for quite a while now, so I don't have to search for the keys, but I still feel that they're mapped poorly on the german keyboard.

What really helped me, and what I would recommend to anybody, is this: if you have Quicksilver on your machine, install the "Extra Scripts" plugin. Then invoke QS and enter "Show Keyboard Viewer" or "SKV".
You get the little keyboard widget that was part of MacOS ever since the original Mac. When you press modifier keys (alt,option), the keys on the widget change accordingly. Very nifty!

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Answer 4

Dec 5, 2006 2:31 AM in response to Andor72

Without having a German keyboard in front of me I don't recall the actual layout (I do however remember the switched y and z) although you will find that the key will in fact be in the same place. The only change should be the modifier key. On a standard keyboard with the "alt gr" modifier you just change it for an "alt" under Mac OS X.

To see the actual key layout use the Keybaord Viewer (activated in the International System Preference > Input Menu then selected from the menu bar items with the flag icon) and it will show you your keys as well and the set created by the modifiers when you hold them down.

I think the keybaords are more similar than you think even though it's not actually printed on the keyboard.

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Answer 5

Andor72 Author

Level 1

10 points

Dec 5, 2006 6:06 AM in response to infinite vortex

Hi Ned,
even if you don't beleive me - that's the way it is. I'm smart enough to find keys - normally. But they are not existing !!
I remapped my keyboard to fit the german IBM standard layout - now I don't have theses problems anymore...

BUT I want Apple to change it !!! What kind of computer is this ?? You can't write a simple program - when you try to type printf("Hello world\n"); you will fail cause you don't find the backslash...

believe me - it is really a poor mapping.

Appple - can you hear me ???

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Answer 6

Andor72 Author

Level 1

10 points

Dec 5, 2006 6:10 AM in response to Christian Capito

Thanks, I thought I'm the only person in germany using a MBP for software developing. I'm trying to find more people like you - so we can Apple help to make its hardware even better.

You know I love my MBP but I hate the keys... (their mapping at least).
Apple - there are quite a lot of good software developers in germany, don't forget them...

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Answer 7

flabes

Level 1

0 points

Feb 26, 2007 3:24 PM in response to Andor72

I've attached my good old IBM keyboard (THE keyboard, with klack instead of click) to my MBP, but it doesn't work properly. I learned a lot of things that I didn't want to know, and have installed Ukelele, Quicksilver/Extra Scripts/skv, and even jwz's xkeycaps. Unfortunately, they all don't do the trick because I'm not able to make Alt and AltGr produce different key codes, so I cannot type '~' (AltGr '+'), '@' (AltGr 'q'), '[' (AltGr '7') etc which are all essential for programming.

The keyboard is attached via a PS/2 <-> USB adapter, but that's not the problem (on my old Linux box xkeycaps shows that different (the correct) key codes are passed.

I think I have to configure the low-level keyboard driver, but I don't know where to find it and how to access it.

This drives me crazy, any help is greatly appreciated.

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Answer 8

Dec 4, 2006 12:30 PM in response to Andor72

What I don't understand why you don't already have a German keyboard being in Germany.

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Answer 9

WillGonz

Level 1

0 points

Dec 4, 2006 2:06 PM in response to infinite vortex

I ordered a MacBook Pro with an english keyboard and got a Spanish keyboard. Still trying to get it resolved.

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