HT204616: Wi-Fi base stations: Setting up and configuring a roaming network (802.11 a/b/g/n)

Learn about Wi-Fi base stations: Setting up and configuring a roaming network (802.11 a/b/g/n)
Math4Geeks

Q: Can I connect two Airport Express units with ethernet cord and have a third Airport Express receive music wirelesslly via AirPlay? In other words, can I combine a roaming and wireless network?

I have one AE on 1st floor connected to cable modem with ethernet. I want to connect that AE to another AE on 2nd floor with ethernet cable AND have a 3rd AE on 1st floor receive music wirelessly via AirPlay. I thought that connecting the first two AEs with ethernet would improve web performance on my desktop iMac, which is on 2nd floor and connects to 2nd floor AE via wifi. The first two AEs are newer model (MC414LL/A); the 3rd AE is older model (MB321LL/A) and is connected to a Bose stereo unit with a miniplug to dual RCA cable cord. I tried to set up this network using AirPort Utility, but have had no success. I do not know if it is possible to do what I want to do; and if it is, I do not know how to set the various settings for each AE using AirPort Utility. I have temporarily set up a purely wireless network; NOT connecting the two AEs with ethernet, and everything works. Would I benefit from my plan as stated above, or should I stick with the purely wireless network. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

iMac (21.5-inch Mid 2011)

Posted on Jun 24, 2016 2:23 PM

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Q: Can I connect two Airport Express units with ethernet cord and have a third Airport Express receive music wirelesslly via AirPlay? ... more

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  • by LaPastenague,Helpful

    LaPastenague LaPastenague Jun 25, 2016 8:23 AM in response to Math4Geeks
    Level 9 (52,347 points)
    Wireless
    Jun 25, 2016 8:23 AM in response to Math4Geeks

    Using ethernet in roaming network between the two floors is a much better idea than all wireless.

     

    The setup should be automagical if you start with the two AE plugged in by ethernet.

     

    It should be setup in standard roaming with identical wireless names.

     

    If you have issues.. please just post the airport utility screenshots of the setup.. but

     

    One Express is presumably the router??? You need to confirm this.

     

    The second express is then setup in bridge.. That is on the network tab.. off bridge mode.

     

    bridgevAU6.png

     

    Wireless is set to create a wireless network and simply use the same name and same password as the other Express.

     

    As stated this should be automagical when you have WAN on the second AE plugged into the LAN on the first AE.

     

    Then wireless extend will also be setup pretty well automatically although sometimes it works better in client mode than extend wireless.

     

    See Client mode.

     

    AirPort Express: How to join an existing Wi-Fi network in client mode - Apple Support

  • by Math4Geeks,

    Math4Geeks Math4Geeks Jun 25, 2016 8:41 AM in response to LaPastenague
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Wireless
    Jun 25, 2016 8:41 AM in response to LaPastenague

    Thanks you, LaPastenague, for your advice! You have confirmed that what I want to do is possible. I have a couple of questions before I get started setting up my network; since everything is working now on a completely wireless network, I want to be sure that I can complete this job in one sitting - I cannot have my network down for a day or two while waiting to get more help.  Q1: Before setting up the new network, should I dismantle the current, wireless network? In other words, should I used AirPort Utility to tell my network to forget all of the additional AEs other than the Main AE Base Station?  Q2: How do I confirm that one AE is the router? This will be the Main Airport Express Base Station, which is connected to the cable model via ethernet. Q3: While setting up the Main AE Base Station, under the Internet tab, I am offered 3 options for Connect Using: (a) DHCP, (b) Static or (c) PPPoE - which is correct?  Q4: Again, for the router, or Main AE Base Station, under the Wireless tab and Network Mode, I am offered 4 options: (a) Create a wireless network, (b) Join a wireless network, (c) Extend a wireless network, or (d) Off - which of those is the correct choice?  Q5: Under the Network Tab, I am offered 2 options: (a) Off (Bridge mode) or (b) DHCP and NAT - which of those should I choose, keeping in mind that this is for the router, the Main AE Base Station? Q6: what setting will be different for the 2nd Floor Base Station, which will be connected to the Main AE Base Station via ethernet cable? Finally, Q7: what settings will be different for the 3rd AE, which will NOT be connected w ethernet; it is used to receive music wirelessly via AirPlay (and could be used to extend a wireless network)?

     

    I know I've asked a lot of questions, but I really need to get this correct in one short time period of a couple of hours, so if you could help me with these questions, that should enable me to do that. I truly appreciate your help!!! Many thanks!

  • by Math4Geeks,

    Math4Geeks Math4Geeks Jun 25, 2016 8:51 AM in response to LaPastenague
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Wireless
    Jun 25, 2016 8:51 AM in response to LaPastenague

    Hello again, LaPastenague. After reading the article on Client Mode a second time, I now feel confident that I can set up the 3rd AE correctly, so please ignore my 7th question in my previous reply. Also, I understand using Bridge mode in the 2nd Floor AE, but I would still love to have your help with my other questions. When I tried setting up a partial roaming network before, it was not automagical for me! I wish it had been, but it was not. Thanks again.

  • by LaPastenague,Solvedanswer

    LaPastenague LaPastenague Jun 25, 2016 2:52 PM in response to Math4Geeks
    Level 9 (52,347 points)
    Wireless
    Jun 25, 2016 2:52 PM in response to Math4Geeks

    I guess the main thing here is to actually understand what you are doing.

     

    When I tried setting up a partial roaming network before, it was not automagical for me! I wish it had been, but it was not.

    The problem with auto setups is that sometimes the magic happens and sometimes not.

     

    To give it the best chance to happen control the environment.. in other words do the setup in the same room using the same computer and hopefully you have a few spare ethernet cables and a computer with ethernet port or adapter.

     

    Q1: Before setting up the new network, should I dismantle the current, wireless network? In other words, should I used AirPort Utility to tell my network to forget all of the additional AEs other than the Main AE Base Station?

    Don't worry about the airport utility.. it will dynamically adjust to the setup. Reset the additional AE.. I always hardware reset, ie use the reset button which needs a paper clip bent out or a toothpick etc. You can also reset via the AU.. merely forgetting is not good enough.

     

    Q2: How do I confirm that one AE is the router? This will be the Main Airport Express Base Station, which is connected to the cable model via ethernet

    In the airport utility click the AE. This is the short summary screen. There is also a full summary screen by holding option key and double clicking the icon.

     

    If the AE is in the right mode you will see two different IP addresses.. a wan and a lan IP.

    See the pic below.. this is bridge mode.. it has the same IP on wan and lan hence the repeated numbers.

     

    edit.png

     

    Click the Edit button.. marked clearly for you.. and go to the Network tab.. that will show you exactly the configuration of the AE.

     

    For your connection with a pure cable modem it would be DHCP and NAT. Don't worry about my numbers.. yours will be different.. but the Router Mode should be as shown.

     

    networkdhcpandnat.png

     

    Q3: While setting up the Main AE Base Station, under the Internet tab, I am offered 3 options for Connect Using: (a) DHCP, (b) Static or (c) PPPoE - which is correct?

     

    For a standard cable modem it should be set to DHCP.

    If you have a modem router it will still be DHCP.. but you have another problem if that is the case.. and the Network tab needs to be set correctly to bridge.

     

    Q4: Again, for the router, or Main AE Base Station, under the Wireless tab and Network Mode, I am offered 4 options: (a) Create a wireless network, (b) Join a wireless network, (c) Extend a wireless network, or (d) Off - which of those is the correct choice?

     

    Always create a wireless network if you connect by ethernet.. Extend a wireless network when you connect by wireless. In the later case no ethernet can be connected.

     

    Q5: Under the Network Tab, I am offered 2 options: (a) Off (Bridge mode) or (b) DHCP and NAT - which of those should I choose, keeping in mind that this is for the router, the Main AE Base Station?

    As per the answer to Q2.. DHCP and NAT if the modem is standard single ethernet type. If the cable modem has 4 ethernet ports and wireless it should be bridge.

     

    Q6: what setting will be different for the 2nd Floor Base Station, which will be connected to the Main AE Base Station via ethernet cable?

    The AE2 will have bridged on the Network tab.

    It will have create a wireless network using the same name (SSID) and same password as the main AE.

     

    Any issues give me screenshots.. we can easily correct it.

  • by Math4Geeks,

    Math4Geeks Math4Geeks Jun 25, 2016 2:54 PM in response to LaPastenague
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Wireless
    Jun 25, 2016 2:54 PM in response to LaPastenague

    Wow! Thank you, thank you, thank you, LaPastenague! I do not have time to set up the network this evening, but I will definitely do that tomorrow. If I have any issues, I will send screenshots. I truly appreciate your taking the time to answer all of my questions, and that you treated all of my questions seriously, not as stupid. I will let you know how things work out. Again, many thanks for all of your time and help!

  • by Math4Geeks,

    Math4Geeks Math4Geeks Jun 26, 2016 12:07 PM in response to Math4Geeks
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Wireless
    Jun 26, 2016 12:07 PM in response to Math4Geeks

    Well, I've set up the two AEs connected w ethernet, and everything is looking good! Had a few bumps in the road, but was able to figure things out. Had to reset all of the AEs, even the two that are connected via ethernet. Only thing left to do now is to have 3rd AE join in Client Mode. Will post when that is finished, but so far, all is going well, thanks to your detailed help!

  • by Math4Geeks,

    Math4Geeks Math4Geeks Jun 26, 2016 12:41 PM in response to LaPastenague
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Wireless
    Jun 26, 2016 12:41 PM in response to LaPastenague

    Problem solved! Finished! Again, there were a couple of bumps in the road setting up the 3rd AE (connected to a Bose tabletop stereo) in Client Mode - I had to reset it three times! - but I was able to connect it in Client Mode. Also, I have a 4th AE connected to an outdoor powered speaker that is usually not plugged in; I power it up only when I'm ready to use it - I also connected that AE in Client Mode. I am now able to send music via AirPlay to both the 3rd and 4th AEs.

     

    The only negative to this setup is that it seems I am no longer able to set up a Guest Network. Following your directions, because my cable modem has 4 ethernet ports and wireless, both the 1st and 2nd AEs, those connected by ethernet, are set to Bridge mode; apparently, that prevents me from setting up a Guest Network for my visiting friends to use. See this article:  AirPort base stations: About the Guest network feature - Apple Support    If there is a way for me to keep what I have and to also set up a guest network, that would be great. If not, I am satisfied.

     

    I want to say once again, LaPastenague, that I truly appreciate your time and help!! I may be a math geek, but I am not a tech geek, yet you did not treat my questions as silly or stupid; you provided cordial and helpful advice. Many thanks to you!

  • by LaPastenague,

    LaPastenague LaPastenague Jun 26, 2016 1:21 PM in response to Math4Geeks
    Level 9 (52,347 points)
    Wireless
    Jun 26, 2016 1:21 PM in response to Math4Geeks

    Glad you got it working.. and it is good that opposites can help.. my Maths is hopeless. Though I did Engineering at uni.. 40years ago.. I assure you what I can do on a basic calculator is it.

     

    Glad to also hear you got it working to your satisfaction.

     

    Guest network is a strange aberration in Apple routers.. all the other brands I can think of provide guest wireless in bridge mode.. apple cannot. It works poorly anyway so I don't think it is a huge loss.

     

    Why not use the wireless in the cable modem router for guests? Many people are over worried about using separate wireless networks.. but that is fine. There are sufficient channels to operate 3 wireless networks in close proximity to each other.

     

    If you have turned off the wireless in your cable modem turn it back on.. and check the manual because it could also have guest functionality.. regardless it can still be used as a guest network whichever way you do it .. just look at the security of your network if there are guests who not trustworthy. The proper guest functionality removes the ability of the guest client to access anything but internet. However your Apple systems are pretty difficult to access from a PC unless you have turned on permissions..

     

    Even if that doesn't work you can just buy a cheap wireless router and plug it into the main router as guest wireless.. you can buy those units for $40 or less.

  • by Math4Geeks,

    Math4Geeks Math4Geeks Jun 26, 2016 1:29 PM in response to LaPastenague
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Wireless
    Jun 26, 2016 1:29 PM in response to LaPastenague

    Thanks! I had already thought of using the wireless capability of the cable modem. Since I have not used that previously, I am investigating how to set it up, but I expect to be able to do that. I do not have a paper manual, so I am looking online to find that information. If need be, I'll do an online chat with a rep from the cable company.

     

    Again, thanks for all of your help! Have a great day!

  • by Math4Geeks,

    Math4Geeks Math4Geeks Jun 27, 2016 2:34 PM in response to LaPastenague
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Wireless
    Jun 27, 2016 2:34 PM in response to LaPastenague

    I want to confirm for anyone that reads this thread that, with two AEs connected by ethernet, my desktop iMac appears to be downloading web pages significantly faster than before, when my entire network was wireless. Just to be clear, the iMac is NOT connected to my network by any type of wire; it receives all internet service via Wifi from one of the AEs. I am glad that I chose to pursue this option, and with the help of LaPastenague, was able to successfully complete it.