Powermac G3, 9.2.2, and inability to format disks/floppies

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Level 1

4 points

Powermac G3, 9.2.2, and inability to format disks/floppies

So rather an odd question, but I have been unable to locate any information relating any similar issue to what I am experiencing. Currently have come across a Performa 6200CD and a Powermac G3 266Mhz. My main issue is with the Powermac, and that it will not recognize or format disks (both floppies and CDs).

If given a floppy with data on it (both Mac and PC formatted, and both accepted on the Performa), it only gives a message to initialize the disk, and only in Mac 800K or DOS 800k. However, an attempt to initialize the disk results in a write error and fails. The same error occurs when given a blank CD, which the pop-up asks to initialize in the PC format, yet fails each time. Ran Disk Utility, and no errors in the system, so unsure on what the problem could be.

Any help resolving this is much appreciated. I am trying to recover data from backup floppies from my Mac SE (the SCSI drive finally failed), but while I can access most of the data on the Performa, only the G3 has the capability for me to move the files from the Mac-only floppies to other media via CD/USB/Ethernet.

Powermac G3 beige (266Mhz)-OTHER, Mac OS 9.2.x

Posted on Aug 5, 2016 6:33 PM

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Answer 1

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MichelPM

Level 10

80,958 points

Aug 7, 2016 8:37 AM in response to ekurt1

You do not "format" optical dtive media using the OS disk utility.

For the CDs you will need to find burning software that is compatible with older Mac OS, like an olde version of Roxio Toast that'll run on Mac OS 9.2.2 for formatting and burning a disc with data you setup to be transferred and burned to disc.

Look for Roxio Toast 5 as this may work as its requirements are Mac OS 8.6 or later.

https://www.amazon.com/Roxio-Toast-Titanium-OLD-VERSION/dp/B00005AW1G/ref=sr_1_1 ?ie=UTF8&qid=1470460272&sr=8-1&keywords=…

I do not believe any old MacOS version had any abilty to burn discs natively. You needed third party hardwarw/software to accomplish this.

Also, I believe the CD drive is a ROM drive and has no way to write to a disc.

So, you would need to find/purchase/use a compatible, external CD reader/writer anyways.

Also, pertaining to CDs, early Macs and early PowerMacs that had built-in CD readers could only read and use the 650 MB size optical discs and these discs had to be the -R/RW type . These early Macs were incapable of recognising the later 700 MB size CD-R/-RW.

https://www.amazon.com/Memorex-74-Minute-10-Pack-Discontinued-Manufacturer/dp/B0 0000J4GS/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=14…

I am not sure about your floppy disc issue. It maybe simply that the floppy drive has an issue with its read/write head that is preventing floppy discs from being read or written to properly.

There used to be floppy drive cleaning discs that could clean the read/write heads, but I am not sure if these are available any longer or whether that would fix the issues with your floppy drive or not.

I found a bunch of different floppy drive cleaning kits on Amazon.

So, check that out, as well.

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Answer 2

Jeff

Level 6

12,058 points

Aug 7, 2016 8:43 AM in response to ekurt1

"Currently have come across a Performa 6200CD and a Powermac G3 266Mhz. My main issue is with the Powermac, and that it will not recognize or format disks (both floppies and CDs)."

Just for clarification, I assume that you mean the G3 won't read/write/format floppy disks and won't recognize CDs. As for CDs, are these burned CD-R/CD-RW disks or commercially-produced disks? Some beige G3s shipped with a 24x Matshita CD-ROM drive, while some shipped with (the better) Sony CD-ROM drive. If the optical drive has been upgraded with a CD-R/RW drive, some third-party ATAPI drives didn't function well in Apple computers, so inserted disks would spin up and down, as the drive attempted to make sense of the disk. At least 10+ years ago, when I was upgrading hardware on my beige G3s, I had good luck with a Toshiba combo DVD-ROM/CD-RW drive, a Lite-On CD-RW, and Pioneer DVD±RW drive. Some other optical drives taken from PCs didn't work in terms of recognizing Mac-formatted disks. I think you should consolidate the best working parts into the G3, so I'd suggest removing the floppy disk drive from the Performa and transfer it to the G3, since it's a compatible swap. If you need directions on removing the front bezel on the 6200 to remove the FDD, post back. Unfortunately, the 6200 has a SCSI CD-ROM drive, but the beige G3s had an ATAPI drive.

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Answer 3

ekurt1 Author

Level 1

4 points

Aug 7, 2016 8:43 AM in response to MichelPM

Thanks Michel for the advice. Unfortunately, as you had guessed, the CD drive is only a CD-ROM, so I will need to replace that for write capabilities. However, i have been able to get my 700 MB CDs to work on the Performa's disk drive, so long as there is less than 650 MB of data on them. As for the floppy drive, I did manage to find a cleaning diskette, but it made no different in reading any of my disks. The only drive on the machine that seems to work is the Zip drive, but that doesn't help my case.

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Answer 4

ekurt1 Author

Level 1

4 points

Aug 7, 2016 8:58 AM in response to Jeff

Thanks for the advice, Jeff. Yes, the G3 will recognize that a floppy/CD has been inserted, but it only prompts to format the disks, as if blank. The only strange thing is that for the floppies, it only gives options for formatting in 800k, despite the floppies being 1.4 MB and working on the Performa just fine.

The current CD drive appears to be the original Apple one, but it ended up being only a CD-ROM drive. While it will not recognize any burned CD's, it will read audio CD's (and the burned disks are recognized by the Performa). Unfortunately, I do not have any original Mac software CD's to test on the drive. I do have several ATAPI CD-R/RW drives lying around from old PC's, so I will try those and hope they are compatible with the Mac.

As for the floppy drive, I will try that swap also and see if the G3 is able to read anything. I've taken both computers apart before, so no issues there. Ideally, I'd like to get a Mac-compatible USB card for the G3 and avoid the CD issue entirely, but that's for another day.

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Answer 5

Jeff

Level 6

12,058 points

Aug 7, 2016 8:53 PM in response to ekurt1

This is an ebay listing for the same IOGEAR 2-port USB PCI card that I installed in at least 10 G3s (most of them were the beige models and a pair of B&W models). It works well in OS 9.x (at USB 1.1 speeds), but better at full USB 2.0 speed when running Jaguar, Panther, or Tiger (if supported). Also, the drive configuration jumper on the HDD or optical drives must be set to master or slave (cable select isn't supported on those models).

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Answer 6

Jan Hedlund

Level 7

22,201 points

Aug 8, 2016 2:52 PM in response to ekurt1

Since the idea is to transfer files from Macintosh SE backup floppies (if these are 1.44 MB, it must be a Macintosh SE FDHD; a plain SE can only handle maximum 800K) to a beige Power Macintosh G3, you may want to try networking as an alternative solution.

Apparently, your Performa 6200CD is capable of reading floppy disks from the SE. Therefore, the files can be copied to the Performa's hard disk. It should then be possible to connect the printer ports of the Performa and the G3 by means of a standard Macintosh MiniDIN-8M to MiniDIN-8M printer cable (this creates a simplified LocalTalk network). If you set up file sharing on one of the computers, it ought to be possible to connect to this server Mac from the other (via AppleShare in the Chooser) and carry out file transfers.

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Answer 7

ekurt1 Author

Level 1

4 points

Aug 8, 2016 5:16 PM in response to Jan Hedlund

Thanks for the idea, Jan. I unfortunately don't have my SE's printer cable with me at the moment, but once I get it in a week, I'll definitely try out this option before opting to scavenge parts from the Performa for the G3.

About the SE, it is actually the original version, but one of the original floppy drives had been replaced with a SCSI hard drive, and the other drive upgraded to an FDHD superdrive with the replacement chip kit. My original plan was to use AppleTalk from the SE to recover the files, but the hard drive crashed before I was able to locate another Mac to communicate with it, so now all I have are some backup disks that I had made previously. Not all of the disks can be read by the Performa, but the majority work with only minor read errors.

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Answer 8

Jan Hedlund

Level 7

22,201 points

Aug 9, 2016 5:13 AM in response to ekurt1

You mentioned that the SCSI hard drive had failed/crashed. What kind of problem was it? Does the hard disk spin? Any sounds indicating a mechanical problem? Is the hard drive recognised by the Macintosh SE?

If the files still on the hard disk are very important, you could contact a professional recovery service (expensive).

If the drive appears to be running (almost) as it should, but cannot be seen by the computer, it would not be a bad idea to try a number of disk utilities (if necessary, with the SCSI drive installed in or externally connected to another Mac). Mt. Everything (http://www.overnet.de/hhp/mte/) would be only one example (but the version on the home page needs at least a 68020 processor). The "Recovering Data from a Defective Disk Drive" section at http://www.overnet.de/hhp/mte/manual/tips.html could perhaps be of interest to you.

If everything else fails, and without too much to lose, you may even want to experiment with opening the drive. It could be an issue with an actuator arm, etc. This way, with luck, you may be able to make the drive work for a short while (while externally connected to another Mac), thus possibly allowing the recovery of a few extra files.

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Answer 9

ekurt1 Author

Level 1

4 points

Aug 10, 2016 9:12 AM in response to Jan Hedlund

The computer was used between the mid-80's to late-90's, at which point it was never turned on again until 2009 (after rediscovering it while clearing out storage). From there, I had not used it until a year ago, when I decided to backup the contents of the hard drive to floppies. Without any luck of finding a SCSI-to-USB adapter, or getting my SCSI-to-Ethernet adapter working, I had gotten ink for my StyleWriter II to eventually print files this past year, but the hard drive gave the clicks of death. I did get it to work for a few hours after putting it in a freezer, but that only gave enough time to copy a few more files/applications.

I am aware of hard-drive recovery options from third-party services, but none of the data on the SE is essential. My interest is purely for curiosity right now. Without any Mac System floppies, I cannot boot up the computer to see what is actually wrong with the hard drive, but as I have most of the data backed-up, I am not too concerned with that now, having found other Macs to use.

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Answer 10

Jeff

Level 6

12,058 points

Aug 10, 2016 10:53 AM in response to ekurt1

The G3 has an internal SCSI-1 bus. Assuming that you have a 50-conductor ribbon cable, connect the SE's hard drive and attempt further diagnostics.

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Answer 11

ekurt1 Author

Level 1

4 points

Aug 10, 2016 7:36 PM in response to Jeff

I was able to locate a USB card that was compatible with the G3. I did not have any luck in networking via the printer/modem ports with AppleShare, but I was able to have the G3 read DOS-formatted floppies via a USB floppy drive. With that, I had copied the files I transferred to the Performa to a DOS floppy, which could then be read and modified in the newer 9.2.2 environment on the G3. Not an ideal solution, but it worked for some of the files.

Unfortunately, many of the SE's backup floppies cannot be read by even the Performa, which I think may be due to using Systems 6-7 to write them (likely 400k MFS-formatted ones). As the Performa should be able to support System 7.5, I'm planning on trying to get that started up to read the disks, once I can locate the older System disks.

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Answer 12

Jan Hedlund

Level 7

22,201 points

Aug 11, 2016 1:51 AM in response to ekurt1

If you happen to have (or could find) a SCSI Zip 100 drive (with disk), it could be connected to the external SCSI port of the SE. It should be possible to use, for example, the Performa to directly install a suitable and working system for the SE onto the Zip disk. That way you could use the SE to read the old backup floppies.

Alternatively, you could use the Performa (or perhaps the G3) to create sector-copied system floppies from disk images via Disk Copy 4.2 (the Make A Copy button) or 6.3.3 (the Make a Floppy command under the Utilities menu). A correctly made system floppy will boot the SE. If necessary, a modified startup floppy (containing a third-party formatting application such as Lido 7.5.6) could (re)format a Zip disk at the SE. It would then allow a system to be installed directly onto the Zip disk at the SE from, for instance, two System 6.0.8 1.44 MB floppy disks.

Information about Apple download links (many still active) for older systems and utilities (including the useful Network Access floppy) can be found through a discussions search.

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Answer 13

ekurt1 Author

Level 1

4 points

Dec 29, 2016 1:51 PM in response to ekurt1

It's been a while since last posting, but I am now getting around to updating my progress from the past few months. For the Powermac G3, the floppy controller ended up being defective (occasionally recognized 1.44 MB disks, but only to initialize and fail). I was also never able to get LocalTalk to work between the two computers. However, the floppy drive from the Performa 6200 worked out well in the G3, and I also upgraded the CD-ROM drive to a new DVD-ROM/CD-RW drive with Toast. I ended up getting a SCSI2SD adapter to replace the failing drive in the SE, and was able to recreate the entire hard drive after freezing it at -70 C for a day (platters spun back up for a few hours before failing again). With the external DB-25 adapter, I was able to transfer the SE files on the SCSI2SD drive to the G3, and then ultimately to USB via the PCI card. However, now with a perfectly working hard drive, the SE is good for full use, as is the G3.

Thank you everyone for your support on the topic, and glad to have everything finally resolved.

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