Q: Airport as range extender now broken after 7.6.7 upgrade

When you have the airports connected by ethernet .. YOU MUST NOT USE EXTEND WIRELESS.

The result is this.

server shows errors like "received packet on eth1 with own address as source address" and "Broadcast Null Supervisory, Receiver not Ready".

You are creating a loop where packets are going around and around the system.

If you say you had it going on 7.6.4 firmware and it was broken by 7.6.7 well, I can only say that it has never worked on any firmware with a switch or some other device that is capable of breaking loops.

Go back to 7.6.4 and see if it still works.

I have found Extend Wireless on 7.6.7 is more restrictive than earlier firmware.. I do strongly recommend 7.6.1 for it.. as I can show reproducible problems 7.6.4 but it is also a case that older airports just lose their ergs.. I have had a successful extend wireless which recently failed.. and it is purely range too great.. whereas it used to be working fine. That shows the products are just in slow decline.

I also get nonsense numbers from the airport utility that I still cannot understand.

eg. I got the link to work on a newer Gen5 TC (refuses to link on Gen4 TC)

If I click the unknown connection it shows a link speed of 450Mbps which is impossible. The RSSI is also what you would get with the two devices within 1 foot of each other (30cm) not 20M through a floor and several walls.

From the TCgen5 end using the v5.6 utility I can see the actual rate..

The link is showing 54Mbps and a signal of -78dB which makes a lot more sense. Unfortunately the other end doesn't even register.. and the 0 for noise is also wrong.

Noise on the latest wireless diagnostics is showing 0 for lots of wireless.

Something rotten in the Apple world of late.. what with the BTMM giving a total mess to Airport Utility if people use it ..

I should have said "roaming network".

In a roaming network you use create a wireless network on each airport. You must not use Extend.

Each airport works as independent AP with ethernet as the backbone of the network. They should each select channels so as to not interfere with each other.. but I have found they will often select channels too close and it can be better to take over the system and manage it yourself.

But I am disappointed of late with the reliability of all my airports. They are older than 3 years (except for Gen5 TC) but are all seemingly in decline. Although I am trying to narrow down the issue.

In a Roaming Network you use create a wireless network on each airport. You must not use Extend.

Each AirPort works as [an] independent AP with Ethernet as the backbone of the network.

I don't get this comment.  Why wouldn't you use "Join a wireless network" on the client (e.g. an AirPort Express) end?

That's what I'm working on now ... I just connected my AirPort Express to a Gigabit hub which is connected via 75 foot Ethernet cabling to my AirPort Extreme in the back of my house.  I used "Join a wireless network" on the Express, not "Create a wireless network".  Seems to work fine?

"Join a wireless network" is used only when an Express connects to a network using wireless.

You are connecting using Ethernet, so the correct setting......assuming that you want the Express to provide additional wireless coverage.....is "create a wireless network".

If you really do have the Express set up to "Join a wireless network"......it is not providing any additional wireless coverage at all, despite what you might think.

Check the current setting using AirPort Utility to see how the Express is really configured.

"Join a wireless network" is used only when an Express connects to a network using wireless.

You are connecting using Ethernet, so the correct setting......assuming that you want the Express to provide additional wireless coverage.....is "create a wireless network".

I guess I find that confusing.  I have an AirPort Extreme which has an Ethernet run going from one of the 3 LAN ports up to the front of my house where it goes into a Netgear 1 Gbit switch.  I plugged the AirPort Express (not the current model btw, the previous 'rectangular' one) into the switch.  I'm obviously trying to 'extend' my (one) existing wireless network into the living room.  Saying "create a wireless network" sounds like a totally counterintuitive thing compared to what I'm trying to do.

And yet, "create a wireless network" is the correct setting for what you want to do.  We don't make the rules......they are made by Apple.

The other choice...."extend a wireless network", like "join a wireless network" is used only when the connection is via wireless.....and you are using Ethernet.  So, neither "join" nor "extend" is the correct setting when an AirPort connects using Ethernet.

Another way to say the same thing is that if you have an Ethernet cable connected to an AirPort, the AirPort must be set up to "create a wireless network".  No other setting is correct.  That's the way that Apple does it, like it or not.

You might want to look through this Apple support document to verify that what we say is true, despite what you might think would be intuitive or non-intuitive.

Wi-Fi base stations: Extending the range of your wireless network by adding additional Wi-Fi base stations - Apple Suppo…

When you connect AirPorts using Ethernet, that will form what is technically known as a "roaming network". Concentrate your reading on that topic in the Apple support document.

Another way to say the same thing is that if you have an Ethernet cable connected to an AirPort, the AirPort must be set up to "create a wireless network".  No other setting is correct.  That's the way that Apple does it.

You might want to look through this Apple support document to verify that what we say is true, despite what you might think would be intuitive or non-intuitive.

If you look at that document, it says

"Use Ethernet to connect from a LAN port of the primary Wi-Fi base station to the WAN port of an extended Wi-Fi base station..

I have the older MB321LL/A AirPort Express model.  It doesn't have a WAN port, it just has a LAN port.

Also, when you configure the Express to "Create a wireless network", it wants to dish out DHCP addresses and specify a range for those addresses.  I don't want it to dish out DHCP addresses, I already have the AirPort Extreme to do that.  I just want the Express to act as a Bridge so any traffic coming from, say, my iPad Pro gets forwarded on up the Ethernet cable and out.

Something about this still isn't making sense to me.

I have the older MB321LL/A AirPort Express model.  It doesn't have a WAN port, it just has a LAN port.

Sounds like you are not aware that the single port on an AirPort Express acts like WAN port when the AirPort is set up as a DHCP and NAT router.......but......it acts like a LAN port when the Express is set up in Bridge Mode, as would be the case in an extended network.

Also, when you configure the Express to "Create a wireless network", it wants to dish out DHCP addresses and specify a range for those addresses.

Nope, not if you read the information in the support document. The Express will be in Bridge Mode in an extended network....and in Bridge Mode DHCP and NAT are turned off.  Network assignments are handled by the "main" router on the network.

All of this information is interesting, but if you will simply use Apple's setup "wizard" to set up the Express, the correct settings.....like Bridge Mode......will automatically be applied.

I don't trust Wizards

Nope, not if you read the information in the support document. The Express will be in Bridge Mode in an extended network....and in Bridge Mode DHCP and NAT are turned off.  Network assignments are handled by the "main" router on the network.

What I was noticing before was that when I configured (with AirPort Utility 5.6.1) the Extreme to extend the network, the Express would magically change to not do DHCP & NAT and do bridging.

What I wasn't noticing was that when I told it to "Create a new wireless network" (but using the same network name), it secretly switched things back to using a DHCP address (instead of the fixed IP that I had previously set up), and to enable DHCP and NAT, and now I found that out so I was able to fix it