Rex Krueger

Q: Bootcamp problems

Mac Pro (early 2008) with four internal disks so can run Mountain Lion, El Capitan (just added yesterday) and Windows (7x64).  Each system has dedicated disk, no partitions. Also use VWware Fusion (vs 6.04) so I can run Windows  under virtual machine through Mountain Lion.

Everything was running fine until yesterday when I installed the fourth disk and then installed El Capitan on it.  That installation went fine, but now I cannot run Windows in either native or virtual machine mode. In Native Mode Bootcamp does not recognize that the Windows disk exists.  In virtual mode, Windows tries to install, but fails with error messages: Startup failed VMware-Virtual IDE HD, from which I conclude that it can find the disk, but cannot connect to the operating system on it.

When I load my Windows 7x64 startup disks and attempt to do maintenance on the Windows system, I get the message that the maintenance package on the disk is not compatible with the version of Windows I am attempting to repair.

 

I know that I can clean the Windows disk and start over with Bootcamp and a new install on Windows.  However, I will lose the program files on that disk and I need them.  At this time I have no way to access the Windows disk.  What am I missing?

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

 

OR Gramps - Rex K

Posted on Aug 17, 2016 8:10 PM

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Q: Bootcamp problems

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  • by Loner T,

    Loner T Loner T Aug 18, 2016 4:10 AM in response to Rex Krueger
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    Aug 18, 2016 4:10 AM in response to Rex Krueger

    Rex Krueger wrote:

     

    In Native Mode Bootcamp does not recognize that the Windows disk exists. 

    Does it mean you cannot see Bootcamp in System Preferences -> Startup Disk? If you restart you Mac and hold Alt/Option key, do you see the Windows disk as an available selection?

     

    In virtual mode, Windows tries to install, but fails with error messages: Startup failed VMware-Virtual IDE HD, from which I conclude that it can find the disk, but cannot connect to the operating system on it.

    There should be no additional installation of Windows, if Bootcamp is being imported. However, if this is referring to VMware Tools being updated, do you get an error message?

     

    When I load my Windows 7x64 startup disks and attempt to do maintenance on the Windows system, I get the message that the maintenance package on the disk is not compatible with the version of Windows I am attempting to repair.

     

    What is the 'maintenance' you are trying to execute? Where did this startup Windows disk come from? Did you upgrade to W10?

     

     

    I know that I can clean the Windows disk and start over with Bootcamp and a new install on Windows.  However, I will lose the program files on that disk and I need them.  At this time I have no way to access the Windows disk. 

     

    Shutdown the MP, remove the El Capitan disk physically from the Mac, and test Windows.

  • by Rex Krueger,

    Rex Krueger Rex Krueger Aug 18, 2016 6:48 AM in response to Loner T
    Level 1 (9 points)
    Windows Software
    Aug 18, 2016 6:48 AM in response to Loner T

    In Native Mode Bootcamp does not recognize that the Windows disk exists. 

    Does it mean you cannot see Bootcamp in System Preferences -> Startup Disk? If you restart you Mac and hold Alt/Option key, do you see the Windows disk as an available selection?

         The answer is no, Windows disk is not available-"does not recognize that the Windows disk exists."

     

    In virtual mode, Windows tries to install, but fails with error messages: Startup failed VMware-Virtual IDE HD, from which I conclude that it can find the disk, but cannot connect to the operating system on it.

    There should be no additional installation of Windows, if Bootcamp is being imported. However, if this is referring to VMware Tools being updated, do you get an error message?

         My error in communicating. I should have said, Windows tries to boot, but fails with error messages. Sorry.

     

    When I load my Windows 7x64 startup disks and attempt to do maintenance on the Windows system, I get the message that the maintenance package on the disk is not compatible with the version of Windows I am attempting to repair.

     

    What is the 'maintenance' you are trying to execute? Where did this startup Windows disk come from? Did you upgrade to W10?

         Please read my comment.  My Windows system is version 7  - 64 bit.  I have the start-up disks for that system.  When I load them there is a maintenance option.  I checked that path due to the error message I received when Windows failed to start up.  No, I did not upgrade to Windows 10.

     

     

    I know that I can clean the Windows disk and start over with Bootcamp and a new install on Windows.  However, I will lose the program files on that disk and I need them.  At this time I have no way to access the Windows disk. 

     

    Shutdown the MP, remove the El Capitan disk physically from the Mac, and test Windows.

     

         Certainly that is a possibility to try.  My sense is that Boot camp has lost its pointer(s) to the Windows disk and removing the El Capitan disk will not change that.  Interestingly, if (while in Mountain Lion) I go to "system preferences" and look at the choices I have for startup disks, the Windows disk shows there as an option.  I have tried that, however as expected without bootcamp I end up with a blinking curser and  blank screen.


    I do have one fall back position and that is I have backup cd copies of the programs/documents as of January this year.  Thus the possibility of erasing the Windows disk and re-installing Bootcamp and Windows is not as bad as I originally thought.


    ________________________


    Thanks for your questions and suggestions.

  • by Loner T,

    Loner T Loner T Aug 18, 2016 7:17 AM in response to Rex Krueger
    Level 7 (23,543 points)
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    Aug 18, 2016 7:17 AM in response to Rex Krueger

    Does Windows boot properly, when you select it from the ML installation.

     

    If you switch to El Capitan, can you post the output of

     

    diskutil list

    diskutil cs list

     

    When booted in El Capitan, please run the following two procedures,

     

    Reset the System Management Controller (SMC) on your Mac - Apple Support

    How to Reset NVRAM on your Mac - Apple Support

     

    and test.

     

    Do you have any third-party NTFS software?

     

    In El Capitan Disk Utility, what does the Windows disk show up as?

  • by Rex Krueger,

    Rex Krueger Rex Krueger Aug 18, 2016 11:49 AM in response to Loner T
    Level 1 (9 points)
    Windows Software
    Aug 18, 2016 11:49 AM in response to Loner T

    Loner T,

     

    Sorry for the delay in responding.  Had an early morning meeting and then had to get El Capitan started, Safari setup and do an update to El Capitan (now at 10.11.6).  I don't have all the answers to your questions but thought I'd get off what I do while I work on the rest.  Thanks for your patience and helpfulness.

     

    ORGramps-RK

     

     

     

    Does Windows boot properly, when you select it from the ML installation.

         No

     

    If you switch to El Capitan, can you post the output of

     

    diskutil list

    diskutil cs list

     

    When booted in El Capitan, please run the following two procedures,

     

    Reset the System Management Controller (SMC) on your Mac - Apple Support

    How to Reset NVRAM on your Mac - Apple Support

     

    and test.

     

    Do you have any third-party NTFS software?

         New turf to me.  Did a search and have unix executable files named NTFSCP, NTFSCAT, NTFS-3G.  I did not knowingly seek and download those files-perhaps they came as a result of BootCamp or VMware Fusion?  In ML I can see the Windows disk and identify the files in it.  Might ML automatically us the NTFS capability to enable me to see those files?  Through ML I have downloaded the critical files I need to my FAT formatted thumb drive.  Unless ML has polluted those files, I have covered my bases re what I need from the Windows disk should I need to erase it and start over.

     

    In El Capitan Disk Utility, what does the Windows disk show up as?

         Interestingly, when I try to open the El Capitan Disk Utility I get an error message "You can’t use this version of the application “Disk Utility” with this version of OS X.  You have 'Disk Utility' 13."  In System Preferences the Windows disk shows as a possible startup disk.  I have not yet tried to open the system using that, but expect I will get another blank screen as when I tried it on ML.  Will try after I send this report.

  • by Loner T,

    Loner T Loner T Aug 18, 2016 5:20 PM in response to Rex Krueger
    Level 7 (23,543 points)
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    Aug 18, 2016 5:20 PM in response to Rex Krueger

    2010.x.x have a UI, but 2015.x.x do not. If there is a UI for NTFS-3g, disable it's control over the BC/Windows disk. If you are using a MacPorts NTFS-3g, you can manually unmount the volume, and let the Apple NTFS driver control it. System Preferences will not allow Startup Disk under El Capitan to show such third-party software controlled volumes. Older version of OS X are bit more permissive, the older the version, the more so.

     

    ML, SL, and El Capitan have different versions of DU. There feature differences. In some cases, older OS X version can corrupt newer disks, and newer versions may refuse to work properly till the newer versions' DU has repaired them successfully.

  • by Rex Krueger,

    Rex Krueger Rex Krueger Aug 18, 2016 6:02 PM in response to Loner T
    Level 1 (9 points)
    Windows Software
    Aug 18, 2016 6:02 PM in response to Loner T

    Lone T,

     

    Sorry for the delay, but have done a number of things.  But first a reply to your last message re: "UI."  The Mac Pro in question is a 2008 (early), not a 2010 (sounds like you are busy helping others - thanks for spending time with me!). Therefore the question do I need to execute your last instruction?  If so, please advise how I manually the volume and let the Apple NTFs driver control it.  How do I determine for sure that the NTFS driver is not already controlling it?

     

    Now onto what I have done.

     

    When booted in El Capitan, please run the following two procedures,

     

    Reset the System Management Controller (SMC) on your Mac - Apple Support

         Done

    How to Reset NVRAM on your Mac - Apple Support

         Not able to do as could not get the sound to work at startup either through my speaker system or through built in speakers.

     

    and test.

     

    Tested after resetting the SMC, but no change.  Still cannot access Windows in either Native or Virtual System mode.

     

    If you switch to El Capitan, can you post the output of

     

    diskutil list

    diskutil cs list

     

         Still have not done.  In light of your last message should I still do this?

     

    _______________

     

    In one of your messages you suggested pulling the EC disk and trying startup to see if the system would work properly.

     

         Done, and the answer is no.  The system in Bootcamp Native mode or in Virtual system cannot find the Windows disk.


    Lastly, I did one additional thing as I was seeing EC having trouble booting (it would get part way (not yet to login) and then restart.  I'm an old retired computer science professor and I recall in earlier Macs the start-up disk should be in slot one or two.  Since I had the EC disk in slot 4 and Windows in slot 2, I re-located the drives as follows: ML-1, EC-2, Windows-3 and Back-up in 4.  EC is now starting every time I restart.  At least that change seems to have helped one problem.


    Thanks for your help and patience.  I await for your next response.  It may be tomorrow morning before I get back to you

  • by Loner T,

    Loner T Loner T Aug 18, 2016 7:09 PM in response to Rex Krueger
    Level 7 (23,543 points)
    Safari
    Aug 18, 2016 7:09 PM in response to Rex Krueger

    The diskutil outputs are still very useful.

     

    Please test with ML-3 and Windows-1 slot layout. Also check when you reboot with Alt/Option key, what ar etch available selections.  There are additional commands which provide partition details, but we can look at them, once we have the diskutil output.

     

    There is a Unix man page for ntfs-3g. You can access it using man ntfs-3g in OSX Terminal. Here is small snippet.

    NTFS-3G(8)                                                                                                                               NTFS-3G(8)

     

    NAME

           ntfs-3g - Third Generation Read/Write NTFS Driver

     

    SYNOPSIS

           ntfs-3g [-o option[,...]]  volume mount_point

           mount -t ntfs-3g [-o option[,...]]  volume mount_point

           lowntfs-3g [-o option[,...]]  volume mount_point

           mount -t lowntfs-3g [-o option[,...]]  volume mount_point

     

    DESCRIPTION

           ntfs-3g is an NTFS driver, which can create, remove, rename, move files, directories, hard links, and streams; it can read and write files,

           including streams, sparse files and transparently compressed files; it can handle special files like symbolic links,  devices,  and  FIFOs;

           moreover it provides standard management of file ownership and permissions, including POSIX ACLs.

     

           It comes in two variants ntfs-3g and lowntfs-3g with a few differences mentioned below in relevant options descriptions.

     

           The volume to be mounted can be either a block device or an image file.

     

    The reference to the NTFS-3g UI is for NTFS-3g versions dated 2010 and 2015. They are unrelated to your MacPro 2008 model. Please see http://macntfs-3g.blogspot.com/ for the Opensource version. There is an additional link - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTFS-3G - which is useful.

     

    The commercial version of NTFS-3g is named Tuxera.

  • by Rex Krueger,

    Rex Krueger Rex Krueger Aug 18, 2016 10:16 PM in response to Loner T
    Level 1 (9 points)
    Windows Software
    Aug 18, 2016 10:16 PM in response to Loner T

    If you switch to El Capitan, can you post the output of

     

    diskutil list

    Last login: Thu Aug 18 22:06:37 on ttys000

    Rexs-Mac-Pro:~ RexK$ diskutil list

    /dev/disk0 (internal, physical):

       #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER

       0:      GUID_partition_scheme                        *500.1 GB   disk0

       1:       Microsoft Basic Data                         499.9 GB   disk0s1

    /dev/disk1 (internal, physical):

       #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER

       0:      GUID_partition_scheme                        *500.1 GB   disk1

       1:                        EFI EFI                     209.7 MB   disk1s1

       2:                  Apple_HFS OS X                    499.2 GB   disk1s2

       3:                 Apple_Boot Recovery HD             650.0 MB   disk1s3

    /dev/disk2 (internal, physical):

       #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER

       0:      GUID_partition_scheme                        *1.0 TB     disk2

       1:                        EFI EFI                     209.7 MB   disk2s1

       2:                  Apple_HFS Backup                  999.9 GB   disk2s2

    /dev/disk3 (internal, physical):

       #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER

       0:      GUID_partition_scheme                        *500.1 GB   disk3

       1:                        EFI EFI                     209.7 MB   disk3s1

       2:                  Apple_HFS El Capitan              499.2 GB   disk3s2

       3:                 Apple_Boot Recovery HD             650.0 MB   disk3s3

    /dev/disk4 (internal, physical):

       #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER

       0:                            Untitled UDF Volume    *4.7 GB     disk4

    Rexs-Mac-Pro:~ RexK$

    ______________________________________________________

    diskutil cs list

    Last login: Thu Aug 18 22:09:39 on ttys000

    Rexs-Mac-Pro:~ RexK$ diskutil cs list

    No CoreStorage logical volume groups found

    Rexs-Mac-Pro:~ RexK$

     

    ______________________________

    These lists were run on El Capitan with disks assigned as follows"

    Windows-1, EC-2, ML-3, Backup-4

     

    Thanks again for your time and effort in this "matter."  Please advise next steps.

     

    ORGramps-RK

  • by Rex Krueger,

    Rex Krueger Rex Krueger Aug 18, 2016 10:51 PM in response to Rex Krueger
    Level 1 (9 points)
    Windows Software
    Aug 18, 2016 10:51 PM in response to Rex Krueger

    Bay2-WDC disk with-EC.jpgLoner T,

     

    I have looked at the report I sent you and am puzzled as to the disk numbering.  I have looked at the system report and sure enough the disk numbering does not agree with the bay assignment.  Oh well.  In any event attached is a snap shot I took of the system report for the only WDC disk in the system on which is loaded EC.

     

    All for tonight.  Thanks again for your efforts.

  • by Loner T,

    Loner T Loner T Aug 19, 2016 4:00 AM in response to Rex Krueger
    Level 7 (23,543 points)
    Safari
    Aug 19, 2016 4:00 AM in response to Rex Krueger

    The slot numbers can be different from the disk[0,1,2,3...] numbers, based on OSX disk probe/discovery sequence and how the firmware presents the disks to the current OS. It is not an issue. The disks can be renumbered across reboots.

     

    Typically, your BC/Windows disk (disk0 for now) when dedicated to Windows is partitioned as an MBR disk, not as a GPT disk. It is possible to convert it an MBR disk. Do you have a good backup of Windows?

  • by Rex Krueger,

    Rex Krueger Rex Krueger Aug 19, 2016 8:39 AM in response to Loner T
    Level 1 (9 points)
    Windows Software
    Aug 19, 2016 8:39 AM in response to Loner T

    VMware StarupError Report.jpgTypically, your BC/Windows disk (disk0 for now) when dedicated to Windows is partitioned as an MBR disk, not as a GPT disk. It is possible to convert it an MBR disk. Do you have a good backup of Windows?

     

        I read that you are wanting to erase and reformat the Windows disk.  Yes I have backups. I have the original Microsoft system disks and a January 2016 backup of both Windows 7 and the one major application that I use on Windows.  In addition, yesterday (while on ML) I downloaded the main application and document files from that application to a thumb drive formatted in FAT.  Will ML pollute (convert) those files or will they be usable by Windows? If we need to erase and rewrite the Windows disk I would like to use the most recent application files if possible.


    On the matter of converting to MRB format, I believe that VMware Fusion is looking for a GPT disk.  Please see attached image with VMware Fusion error message.

  • by Loner T,

    Loner T Loner T Aug 19, 2016 11:19 AM in response to Rex Krueger
    Level 7 (23,543 points)
    Safari
    Aug 19, 2016 11:19 AM in response to Rex Krueger

    We do not need to erase/reformat, but we can try to convert the GPT/MBR disk to a MBR-only disk.

     

    Before we do that, one more thing to check is the MBR on the Windows itself.

     

    sudo fdisk /dev/diskN

     

    You will need to pick N which points to the Windows disk from the current diskutil list output and put the value in it's place. Assuming disk0 is your Windows disk, the command will become

     

    sudo fdisk /dev/disk0

  • by Rex Krueger,

    Rex Krueger Rex Krueger Aug 19, 2016 11:34 AM in response to Loner T
    Level 1 (9 points)
    Windows Software
    Aug 19, 2016 11:34 AM in response to Loner T

    Through ML via Terminal:

     

    Last login: Fri Jan  8 08:16:29 on console

    Eugenes-Mac-Pro:~ rex$

    Last login: Fri Aug 19 10:09:14 on console

    Eugenes-Mac-Pro:~ rex$ sudo fdisk /dev/disk0

    Password:

    Disk: /dev/disk0    geometry: 60801/255/63 [976773168 sectors]

    Signature: 0xAA55

             Starting       Ending

    #: id  cyl  hd sec -  cyl  hd sec [     start -       size]

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    1: EE 1023 254  63 - 1023 254  63 [         1 -  976773167] <Unknown ID>

    2: 00    0   0   0 -    0   0   0 [         0 -          0] unused     

    3: 00    0   0   0 -    0   0   0 [         0 -          0] unused     

    4: 00    0   0   0 -    0   0   0 [         0 -          0] unused     

    Eugenes-Mac-Pro:~ rex$

  • by Loner T,

    Loner T Loner T Aug 19, 2016 11:37 AM in response to Rex Krueger
    Level 7 (23,543 points)
    Safari
    Aug 19, 2016 11:37 AM in response to Rex Krueger

    This does not show an MBR. Can you post the output of the following two commands?

     

    sudo gpt -vv -r show /dev/disk0

    sudo dd if=/dev/rdisk0s1 count=1 2>/dev/null | hexdump -C

     

    This will show us the GPT and the first block on the disk.

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