Richard Mac User

Q: Please help with optimum setup

Hello

 

I know very little about networking.

 

Currently my setup is -

 

D-Link ADSL Modem Router with WiFi turned off >

 

Airport extreme connected by ethernet to Modem/Router - Create a wireless network - Bridge Mode - Static IP address> (IPv6 set for Link-Local only -- Thanks to Bob Timmons which solved and earlier problem)

 

Airport extreme connected by ethernet to Airport extreme - Create a wireless network - Bridge Mode> - Static IP address> (IPv6 set for Link-Local only)

 

Airport extreme connected by ethernet to Airport extreme - Create a wireless network - Bridge Mode> - Static IP address (IPv6 set for Link-Local only)

Now the firmware on the Apple units is very recent (May 2016) yet the firmware on the D-Link is over 3 years. Would it be a more efficient and secure setup if I disabled DCHP on the D-link and set up DHCP and NAT on the first Airport Extreme? If so can you check I am correct.-

 

D-Link Router settings - leave IP address and Subnet mask as is.

- Uncheck Enable DHCP Server

 

On first Airport extreme - Change from Off (Bridge Mode) to DHCP and NAT

 

Also what range of numbers should I use ideally for static addresses?

 

I would welcome feedback and any good practice I could follow.

 

Thanks

iMac, OS X El Capitan (10.11)

Posted on Aug 29, 2016 6:30 PM

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Q: Please help with optimum setup

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  • by Bob Timmons,

    Bob Timmons Bob Timmons Aug 29, 2016 6:45 PM in response to Richard Mac User
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    Aug 29, 2016 6:45 PM in response to Richard Mac User
    Would it be a more efficient and secure setup if I disabled DCHP on the D-link and set up DHCP and NAT on the first Airport Extreme?

    No.  The only reason to consider this would be if there were some special feature or service that required that the first AirPort be set up as the DHCP and NAT router for the network.

  • by Richard Mac User,

    Richard Mac User Richard Mac User Aug 29, 2016 6:57 PM in response to Bob Timmons
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    Aug 29, 2016 6:57 PM in response to Bob Timmons

    Thanks for the very quick response.

     

    So the fact that everything is connected via an Airport Extreme protects it via the Extremes FireWall?

     

    The D-Link has DHCP for ranges 33 to 254, so my static devices should be in the range say 10 to 30?

     

    Regards

  • by Bob Timmons,

    Bob Timmons Bob Timmons Aug 29, 2016 7:02 PM in response to Richard Mac User
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    Aug 29, 2016 7:02 PM in response to Richard Mac User

    So the fact that everything is connected via an Airport Extreme protects it via the Extremes FireWall?

    No, the firewall is in the D-Link device.  No firewall in the AirPorts.

     

    The D-Link has DHCP for ranges 33 to 254, so my static devices should be in the range say 10 to 30?

    Could be if you prefer, but it doesn't really matter since each AirPort always gets the same IP address.

  • by Richard Mac User,

    Richard Mac User Richard Mac User Aug 29, 2016 7:09 PM in response to Bob Timmons
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    Aug 29, 2016 7:09 PM in response to Bob Timmons

    Hi Bob

     

    I am a little confused

     

    "No, the firewall is in the D-Link device.  No firewall in the AirPorts."

     

    https://www.apple.com/airport-extreme/#safety

  • by Bob Timmons,

    Bob Timmons Bob Timmons Aug 29, 2016 7:22 PM in response to Richard Mac User
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    Aug 29, 2016 7:22 PM in response to Richard Mac User

    Unfortunately, the document does not mention that the NAT "firewall" is not enabled when the AirPorts are in Bridge Mode.

     

    Even if the AirPort is set up as a DHCP and NAT router, Apple is really stretching it to say that there is a "firewall" in the AirPort, since NAT is not really a firewall in the traditional sense.

  • by Richard Mac User,

    Richard Mac User Richard Mac User Aug 29, 2016 7:21 PM in response to Bob Timmons
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    Aug 29, 2016 7:21 PM in response to Bob Timmons

    Thanks Bob for clearing that up for me. Its not clear in Apples advertising. So if I am relying on the modem/router for the firewall should I be looking for a unit that gets regular updates. The only choice I have here is -

     

    D-Link

    TP Link

    Netgear

    Asus

     

    D-Link don't seem to me to do many updates

     

    The Asus, I was reading were terrible for security but have been forced by the US government to improve and now seem very security minded. Would their higher spec models be the one to go for?

     

    Or would the higher security of the Extreme be the special feature or service that required that the first AirPort be set up as the DHCP and NAT router for the network?

     

    Sorry if this seems slightly paranoid, but I have been the victim of identity theft in the past so I try to protect myself as much as possible.

     

    Thanks

  • by Bob Timmons,

    Bob Timmons Bob Timmons Aug 29, 2016 7:58 PM in response to Richard Mac User
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    Aug 29, 2016 7:58 PM in response to Richard Mac User

    D-Link, TP-Link, Netgear, Asus

     

    Sorry, I don't use any of the products that you mention, so cannot help on any recommendations in that regard.

  • by Richard Mac User,

    Richard Mac User Richard Mac User Aug 29, 2016 8:07 PM in response to Bob Timmons
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    Aug 29, 2016 8:07 PM in response to Bob Timmons

    Thanks for your help Bob.

  • by LaPastenague,

    LaPastenague LaPastenague Aug 30, 2016 2:36 AM in response to Richard Mac User
    Level 9 (52,270 points)
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    Aug 30, 2016 2:36 AM in response to Richard Mac User

    Apple put the security into the client.. so Mac or iOS device.. rather than putting a lot of security into the router.

     

    There are good reasons for this. The security on the router (unless you have enterprise grade equipment) is designed mostly to protect the router itself. So from the point of view of security of router the Apple is very good. I have never heard of one being hacked. (even when there was a hole in it, Apple simply have so little configuration access that it hardly matters).

     

    Attempts to hack your computers can come from a number of different methods. A standard NAT router blocks most direct hijack attempts. NAT is NOT a firewall as Bob has stated and can be broken but it does provide a first level of security. Having an SPI separate firewall in a router can also help. However it will cause issues and require lots of careful looking after to maintain the right level of allowing packets out of the system and legit packets back in without letting in the evil ones.

    So the path for most security issues are infected websites and downloads. A router firewall cannot block these.. you have deliberately selected them. What a router firewall can do is block them calling home. That is the job of SPI firewall in the better routers.. so if you get a trojan for instance in a computer the SPI firewall will block that dialling out.. !! Of course virus and trojan writers will develop new methods to get around any static firewall block so it is extremely difficult to stop at the router.

     

    The place to stop the security breakdown is in the device itself.. so it cannot be hacked or by using antivirus type software you can prevent a virus loading itself into memory.

     

    Now some specifics.

    Any low end modem router is built around virtually identical platform and firmware is OEM developed by the Chipset manufacturer and tweaked by the seller.. The difference between the brands you mention is minimal. They have all had issues with their firmware being hacked.. so it is important to use the latest version.

     

    IMHO the better method is to use a bridged modem and the airport in PPPOE mode.. this is problematic for some users and impossible if the ISP doesn't support PPPOE (or IPOE now). So give it a try. A cheap bridged modem and run PPPOE client on the WAN of the airport. If it works for you and is reliable that will give you the best security unless you are prepared to buy something that takes third party.

     

    What is more important is at the client end.. OS X and iOS up to date with latest patches.. I would not run anti-virus on a Mac as they are more problematic than they are worth but be a smart user and don't open downloads you don't know the source of. For PC of course you MUST run anti-virus and some security software as well. This is essential. Have excellent backups and expect over the course of a few years to need your current backup so you can wipe an infected computer and reinstall from a clean backup.. this is not without effort.

     

    If the Apple router won't work in PPPOE with bridged modem post back for other methods to improve the security.

  • by Bob Timmons,

    Bob Timmons Bob Timmons Aug 30, 2016 5:50 AM in response to LaPastenague
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    Aug 30, 2016 5:50 AM in response to LaPastenague

    PPPoE on the AirPort might be worth a try, but is not something that I would normally recommend as a solution, since it seems to create more problems than it solves.

     

    But, you never know. If Richard Mac User has the time to experiment and wants to give that a try for week or so, he will have a good idea of whether it will work or not on his network.

  • by Richard Mac User,

    Richard Mac User Richard Mac User Aug 30, 2016 6:18 AM in response to LaPastenague
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    Aug 30, 2016 6:18 AM in response to LaPastenague

    Thank you LaPastenague for taking the time for such a comprehensive reply.

     

    I have to admit a lot of it went over my head.

     

    I do keep all devices up to date, usually updating firmware on the day it is released (though whilst looking at reconfiguring my setup I noticed I had missed a Modem firmware update).

     

    I have searched, and yes I can configure my modem/router in bridged mode so I will try your suggestion to set that up and the airport extreme in PPPOE mode. Is it just the first extreme that needs to be set as that or all three units?

     

    I have some important work to do today, but will give it a go in the next few days.

     

    And with regard to backups, yes I have backups and they too are backed up as I have had HDD failure (PC and Mac (backup)), motherboard failure (PC) and encrypting ransom software (PC) over the years . The joys!

  • by Bob Timmons,

    Bob Timmons Bob Timmons Aug 30, 2016 6:35 AM in response to Richard Mac User
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    Aug 30, 2016 6:35 AM in response to Richard Mac User

    I have searched, and yes I can configure my modem/router in bridged mode

    Before you do that, it might be a good idea to check with your Internet Service Provider to make sure that they will support this type of setup.

     

    When / if you set up the modem/router in bridge mode, you will no longer be able to access the configuration settings on the device, as you have been able to do before.

     

    Only the first, or "main" AirPort should be set up to provide the PPPoE connection credentials. Opinions vary on whether you should try the "Automatic" connection or "Always On" option in AirPort Utility. One setting may or may not work better than the other as far as connection stability.

     

    I have never had much luck with the AirPorts supplying PPPoE connections, but your luck may be better than mine. Post back when you can to let us know how things are working.

  • by Richard Mac User,

    Richard Mac User Richard Mac User Aug 30, 2016 7:03 AM in response to Bob Timmons
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    Aug 30, 2016 7:03 AM in response to Bob Timmons

    Thanks Bob,

     

    I looked at my provider -

    Conn Type - Dynamic

    Protocol - PPPoE

    Encapsulation mode - LLC/SNAP

     

    So that should be ok?

     

    I was concerned about your first comment "When / if you set up the modem/router in bridge mode, you will no longer be able to access the configuration settings on the device, as you have been able to do before." But I realised I can always backup my current settings before I change and if doesn´t work I could do a hard reset and then reload my current settings. Though not having access to configuration settings  will make future (modem) firmware updates etc more difficult in the future.

     

    I will of course feedback how it goes.

     

    Regards

  • by Bob Timmons,

    Bob Timmons Bob Timmons Aug 30, 2016 7:21 AM in response to Richard Mac User
    Level 10 (104,879 points)
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    Aug 30, 2016 7:21 AM in response to Richard Mac User

    If you want to update the "modem", you will have to set it back up again as a modem/router, do the update, then reconfigure it again as a bridge.

     

    Of course, if you set up the modem as a modem/router to do the update, then the PPPoE settings on the AirPort will not be correct.  So, probably best to connect your computer directly to the modem/router when updates are performed.

     

    Honestly, I do not think that you will be happy with PPPoE on the AirPort, but hope that I am wrong.

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