3DTOPO

Q: Glint not rendered to frames

I spent a lot of time getting the nifty glint filter just how I wanted it, only to find that the exported frames barely shows any hint of it. I am saving PNG files with the Export Image Sequence command. I have tried all possible combinations (render qualities, render options, pre-multiply on/off, etc. etc.), but I cannot get the exported frames to look remotely like it does in the application.

 

It looks like this in the Render window (with or without using RAM playback):

Screen Shot 2016-10-04 at 2.20.18 AM.png

 

 

The rendered frame (on a black background) looks like this:

awesome-11.png

 

How do I make it look like the render in the application? For professional software, I can't believe the output is so different than what is shown in the application. Also, the Dazzle effect on the text doesn't seem to look the same either - its much more bright than the exported frames.

 

Note if I choose to export it as a movie, the same issue occurs.

Motion 5, OS X El Capitan (10.11.6), Motion 5.2.3

Posted on Oct 4, 2016 1:40 AM

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Q: Glint not rendered to frames

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  • by Luis Sequeira1,

    Luis Sequeira1 Luis Sequeira1 Oct 4, 2016 5:38 AM in response to 3DTOPO
    Level 6 (12,545 points)
    Mac OS X
    Oct 4, 2016 5:38 AM in response to 3DTOPO

    I could not reproduce this problem. I remember hearing about this in the past (quite a while ago), and I believe at the time my experience confirmed it.

    You profile says you are running the most recent version of Motion (5.2.3).

     

    Only difference for me is that I am on Sierra. I can't say if this has anything to do with it or not.

     

    I suggest that you try this on a new admin account and see if the problem persists there. Let us know.

  • by David Bogie Chq-1,

    David Bogie Chq-1 David Bogie Chq-1 Oct 4, 2016 2:56 PM in response to Luis Sequeira1
    Level 7 (25,822 points)
    Video
    Oct 4, 2016 2:56 PM in response to Luis Sequeira1

    I cannot reproduce your results either but here are some PNGs anyway.

    Motion image on top, saved PNG underneath. The Motion project includes a black rectangle shape layer under or behind the text layer. Without the black shape the rendered image is quite unremarkable.

     

    See the third and forth images, PNGs from similar project but the top includes the alpha on a default Preview background and the bottom has a black shape behind the text.

    Motion screen.png

    Untitled 2.png

    Untitled.png

    Untitled 1.png

  • by 3DTOPO,

    3DTOPO 3DTOPO Oct 4, 2016 3:06 PM in response to David Bogie Chq-1
    Level 1 (8 points)
    Video
    Oct 4, 2016 3:06 PM in response to David Bogie Chq-1

    Thanks for your help.

     

    I need it to have an alpha channel (background transparent). I don't understand why exporting it without a black background doesn't produce the same results when the exported image is placed on a black background (in photoshop for instance). It should look the same and doesn't. Any ideas?

  • by Karsten Schlüter,

    Karsten Schlüter Karsten Schlüter Oct 5, 2016 6:53 AM in response to 3DTOPO
    Level 7 (32,728 points)
    Video
    Oct 5, 2016 6:53 AM in response to 3DTOPO

    I'm with Luis - works like charm here (admitting, I'm using macOS Sierra too):

     

    Screen Shot 2016-10-05 at 15.43.42.png

     

    Example I:

    title with a color solid, published with some parameters = fully functional

     

    Screen Shot 2016-10-05 at 15.44.23.png

     

    Example II:

    title on 'nix'/alpha - identical result …

     

     

    Have you tried trashing the prefs of M5?

    ~/Library/Preferences/by Host/com.apple.motionapp.plist ? 

  • by David Bogie Chq-1,

    David Bogie Chq-1 David Bogie Chq-1 Oct 5, 2016 9:09 AM in response to 3DTOPO
    Level 7 (25,822 points)
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    Oct 5, 2016 9:09 AM in response to 3DTOPO

    Possibly useless information: A similar phenomenon used to be cured by a process known as unmultiplying. John Knoll, creator of Photoshop, had a free filter for early versions of After Effects called "Unmult" that created an alpha channel where there was none. Using Unmult changed, say, a lens flare (a generator effect applied to a black solid layer) from a ghostly overlay apparition into an intensely vibrant, in-your-face presence by removing the black background.

     

    Without seeing your project and your export settings, that's what appears to me to be happening to you. You're losing the vibrancy of your effects in the subtlety of your output file. Without looking over your shoulder, I'm not sure what to suggest to solve it other than to say, regrettably, this is going to turn out to be a minor user error.

  • by 3DTOPO,

    3DTOPO 3DTOPO Oct 5, 2016 12:45 PM in response to Karsten Schlüter
    Level 1 (8 points)
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    Oct 5, 2016 12:45 PM in response to Karsten Schlüter

    The issue only occurs with the exported images when using no background. It looks fine in Motion regardless.

  • by 3DTOPO,

    3DTOPO 3DTOPO Oct 5, 2016 12:49 PM in response to David Bogie Chq-1
    Level 1 (8 points)
    Video
    Oct 5, 2016 12:49 PM in response to David Bogie Chq-1

    My exported images (that have the issue) already do have an alpha channel. I have tried every possible export option (including checking and unchecking pre-multiply alpha).

     

    I found out that if I put a black background under my text layer, then the exported frames look exactly like they do in Motion. The problem is I need the frames to have a transparent background. Try for yourself what I am saying, or I can prepare a sample project illustrating the issue.

  • by Luis Sequeira1,

    Luis Sequeira1 Luis Sequeira1 Oct 6, 2016 2:20 AM in response to 3DTOPO
    Level 6 (12,545 points)
    Mac OS X
    Oct 6, 2016 2:20 AM in response to 3DTOPO

    3DTOPO wrote:

     

    The issue only occurs with the exported images when using no background. It looks fine in Motion regardless.

    When setting the background as transparent, I get the same thing you do.

  • by David Bogie Chq-1,

    David Bogie Chq-1 David Bogie Chq-1 Oct 6, 2016 8:06 AM in response to Luis Sequeira1
    Level 7 (25,822 points)
    Video
    Oct 6, 2016 8:06 AM in response to Luis Sequeira1

    So this is an issue caused by what? Motion's rendering engine, the export settings? Not enough data in the image? Needs to be 32 bit? (I don't really know what that means.)

     

    The image seems to be lacking all of the alpha information and is being displayed with a blend setting like Screen. That's one of the things Unmult used to take care of in After Effects, it created a fully functional 8 bit alpha channel making the RGB+Alph file 32 bit, 8 per channel.

    However, if I export my AWESOME images with alpha only and reimport them back into Motion and place them over a black background (or any background, as Karsten did with his curtains) inside Motion, all effects display fine.

     

    I still cannot reproduce these results.

  • by Luis Sequeira1,

    Luis Sequeira1 Luis Sequeira1 Oct 6, 2016 8:51 AM in response to David Bogie Chq-1
    Level 6 (12,545 points)
    Mac OS X
    Oct 6, 2016 8:51 AM in response to David Bogie Chq-1

    Did you try importing such an AWESOME image into another program, like Pixelmator, and add a black background? I did and the results are different...

     

    Export with transparency, import back to Motion, put a black background: looks like the original.

    Do the same in Pixelmator, no glint...

  • by David Bogie Chq-1,

    David Bogie Chq-1 David Bogie Chq-1 Oct 6, 2016 9:22 AM in response to Luis Sequeira1
    Level 7 (25,822 points)
    Video
    Oct 6, 2016 9:22 AM in response to Luis Sequeira1

    Luis Sequeira1 wrote:

     

    Did you try importing such an AWESOME image into another program, like Pixelmator, and add a black background? I did and the results are different...

     

    Export with transparency, import back to Motion, put a black background: looks like the original.

    Do the same in Pixelmator, no glint...

     

    Never heard of Pixelthingy but I'll take your word for it. Photoshop works fine, though. So do After Effects and Illustrator; they all see the alpha correctly and display all effects as expected. Even apple photos imports and displays the image correctly.

     

    So, there is no problem, right? The exported file from Motion is fine. It's the external program that is not interpreting the alpha information correctly. The statements from the original post, "but I cannot get the exported frames to look remotely like it does in the application…For professional software, I can't believe the output is so different than what is shown in the application." do not apply.

  • by Karsten Schlüter,

    Karsten Schlüter Karsten Schlüter Oct 6, 2016 9:47 AM in response to 3DTOPO
    Level 7 (32,728 points)
    Video
    Oct 6, 2016 9:47 AM in response to 3DTOPO

    okay, from scratch, 'cause I misunderstood the initial situation…

    Made me in Pixelmator a graphic WITH alpha …

     

    Screen Shot 2016-10-06 at 18.19.51.png

     

    lot so transparencies, lots of opaque…

     

    dropped that into M5, applied naughty Glint, published to FCPX:

     

    doo solid.jpg

     

    This is WITH a color solid within M5… this is…

     

    doo alpha.jpg

    … without bg/with an empty bg, curtain applied in FCPX…

     

    And an export from within M5…

    doo solid M5.png

    … shows the same result.

     

    summary;

    Works like charm. Here.

    … your source file is a 'normal' 8bit png?

     

    and, David, me too puzzled, but aside unmult … there was something with effects and layers and backgrounds and not affected drop zones <scratching head> … no, sorry, my brains firmware is still vers. 0.5, and its manufacturer stopped support long time ago… ...

  • by Luis Sequeira1,

    Luis Sequeira1 Luis Sequeira1 Oct 6, 2016 9:52 AM in response to Karsten Schlüter
    Level 6 (12,545 points)
    Mac OS X
    Oct 6, 2016 9:52 AM in response to Karsten Schlüter

    The problem the OP described is what happens with that exported glinted file in other programs, such as Preview and Pixelmator. Karsten, did you try opening that file exported from Motion in one of those programs?

     

    So far, we have established that everything works fine in the Motion/FCP X ecosystem; and David has tried it sucessfully in Photoshop (which I do not own, but have heard about ).

    It is quite possible that the error is not Motion's fault and lies in a bad rendering of the alpha in Preview and Pixelmator, as David suggests.

  • by 3DTOPO,

    3DTOPO 3DTOPO Oct 6, 2016 2:38 PM in response to Karsten Schlüter
    Level 1 (8 points)
    Video
    Oct 6, 2016 2:38 PM in response to Karsten Schlüter

    Karsten Schlüter wrote:

     

     

    And an export from within M5…

     

    … shows the same result.   

    How did you add the black background - in Motion or something like Photoshop?

     

    Karsten Schlüter wrote:

     

    Works like charm. Here.

    … your source file is a 'normal' 8bit png?

     

    My source is an Adobe Illustrator (PDF) file. Motion is creating the alpha when it rasterizes it.

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