Q: Documents and Desktop folders in iCloud

They are mirrored, Sierra has just move them locally to the iCloud folder but they are still all locally on your mac and not only in the cloud.

You're not the first to get worried about this.

Everything in the iCloud folder is one your mac just like everything in the DropBox folder is on your mac – in both instances they are also mirrored in the cloud too.

You can double check this by turning of wifi and you will see the files still there. Also if you open you TM backup and navigate to the icloud drive folder (user folder/library/mobile documents/icloud drive) everything should be there. The icloud drive folder in TM will show you everything in icloud and not just what you see in the finder, ie there will be a folder for each application that stores in the cloud.

This is my icloud drive folder and the same folder in my TM backup. Do not use the TM app to check this, open your TM hard drive in the finder and navigate through the folder structure.

Ignore how the Finder looks, it's actually a Finder replacement caller PathFinder.

On the left is is my iCloud Drive, and on the right is it in my TM backup, the iCloud Drive folder is actually called "com~apple~CloudDocs". I haven't turn on iCloud Doc's & Desktop Folder, but if they are not in the iCloud Drive folder in TM then they should be in it's parent folder (Mobile Docs). As I don't use this feature I can't give you a definitive answer.

Re lose of wifi, turn it off, I'd expect the docs and desktop folders to stay in the iCloud folder.

Hi Stephen, I just went 3 furious argumentative rounds of frustration with the Lead Trainer at my local Apple Store.

My complaint is the same as yours.

At the time of Upgrade / Migration to Sierra, all of the dialog boxes indicate that our Documents Folder would be "synced" or "mirrored" to iCloud.

I agreed and checked the box for "yes", this sounds good.

Truth is, that the set up process is PATHETICALLY, RIDICULOUSLY, INFURIATINGLY misleading to the point of just being outright B**L S**T.

The facts are....

1) NOTHING is "synced" or "mirrored" at all. This languaging with the word "sync" is a total BS lie. NOTHING is being "synced".

2) What actually happens is that you local Documents Folder on your local hard drive is...

A) renamed "iCloud Drive (archive) (the name may vary on other machines) 

B) the folder is moved to a new location (on mine it was in my Home Folder)

C) your documents folder and contents, is uploaded to iCloud

D) all Finder / OS connectivity to your old Documents folder is severed (in terms of it being recognized any longer as the Documents folder)

E) ALL your Documents from this moment forward, live ENTIRELY 100%, PERMANENTLY, in iCloud. They are not "synced". They are not "mirrored". They are literally MOVED and relocated to iCloud.

3) ALL ability to backup the Documents Folder moving forward is 100% completely eliminated, because your Documents no longer "live" on your hard drive. They are 100% in the cloud now.

4) ALL accessing of ANY document moving forward is 100% cloud based. Want to edit a file? Click on it and it will download to your machine from the cloud for you to work on. When youre done and save the document, it will be 100% saved in iCloud and NOT on your machine.

5) Your ability to access ANY and ALL of your files moving forward will be 100% dependent on the reliability of and access to an internet connection, combined with the reliability of Apple's iCloud system. (which from it's inception has been fraught with reliability issues for YEARS.) No internet connection?.... then NO access to any documents EVER.

6) Want to feel safe that your documents are backed up? Too bad. ALL faith, confidence, trust, reliability in the system and your ability to access or backup ANY and ALL of your files is 100% dependent on Apple.

7) Feel like trusting Apple iCloud with 100% of EVERYTHING you have ever written or created for the last 40 years is putting too much trust into one fragile, unreliable basket and you would like to reverse the process, turn off Documents and Desktop in iCloud, and get your Documents folder back local? Good luck.

Online instructions say, "just uncheck the Document and Desktop" check box in iCloud System Preferences and your Documents folder will be downloaded back to your desktop drive. This is 100% Bull Sh*t.

I spent an hour yesterday at my local Apple Store talking with an arrogant woman who boasted about being the Lead Trainer who knew the answers to everything. She didn't have a clue about how to reverse this. She just kept throwing out lame guesses. I've also talked to 3 different Tier 2 Senior Support people on the phone. None of them knew how to reverse this.

So far I haven't found anyone, online or Senior Apple Support, who have any clue how to reverse this process. There are a few online loud-mouths who will insist they know how and a few more Apple people who will throw out lame guesses, but the truth is that so far, "nobody" with any credibility seems to know how. My tests of the loud-mouths assertions have not shown results that match their claims.

Here is one very important consideration.

The local Documents folder on a desktop machine running OSX (macOS) isn't just the same as any old folder with any old name, but in this case just happens to be named "Documents". NO.

The Documents Folder, (before upgrading to Sierra, totally screwed everything up) was fully integrated in more complex file/recognition ways than just a regular folder. Just as you can't call any folder "System" and then it magically becomes the System Folder, simply because you named it such, you can't just name any folder "Documents" and have it magically become the OS recognized Documents Folder, just because you named it such.

So, reversing the process and taking the now-named "iCloud drive (archive)" folder, changing the name back to "Documents", and dragging it in the Finder back into the Home Folder, DOESN'T WORK.

We shall both need to keep reading these forums in hopes that SOMEONE who actually knows something at Apple will respond.

(Feeling angry and misled about this "iCloud Documents" issue? Search for my other post about how upgrading to Sierra will render ALL the backups that you have EVER made using Time Machine, useless, unreadable, garbage, because with Sierra, Apple changed the entire file system from HFS+ to their new format APFS. Sierra can not recognize or read ANY backup file made with the previous file system HFS+. Do you think your data is safe because you backed up? Sorry. All your backups, (pre-Sierra) are all useless, unreadable, junk. Read my other post for details.)

NO NO NO NO NO

Think.Different's response is 100% TOTALLY WRONG.

STOP WRITING AND PROMOTING CRAP ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS!

There is NO "mirroring" going on.

There is NO "syncing" going on.

NONE!!!!!

Once a user has opted-in to "iCloud Desktop and Documents", by checking the box in System Preferences, NOTHING from the Documents Folder "lives" on the local drive after that.

ALL contents of your Documents Folder gets uploaded to iCloud Drive. That is the ONLY place where your documents live moving forward.

Your local Documents Folder is renamed, moved and ARCHIVED.... never to be integrated or updated in relation to the iCloud Documents Folder EVER again.

ALL documents in the iCloud Documents Folder live ONLY in the cloud from this moment (of opt-in) forward.

You can have some files only stored in the cloud but only if you select one of the following additional options. "Store in iCloud" option is under About this mac > Storage > Recommendations - this is off by default.

Or if you check "Optimize Mac Storage" and you get low on hard drive space - this is off by default.

To confirm if the documents are only in iCloud, all Stephen needs to do is turn off WiFi – assuming he doesn't have the two options above checked. If the files are still there then they are stored locally.

It would make no sense to only have files in the cloud, opening that 1.5GB Photoshop document or 124gb Final Cut Pro Project over the internet would be unworkable.

You can have some files only stored in the cloud but only if you select one of the following additional options. "Store in iCloud" option is under About this mac > Storage > Recommendations - this is off by default.

Or if you check "Optimize Mac Storage" and you get low on hard drive space - this is off by default.

To confirm if the documents are only in iCloud, all Stephen needs to do is turn off WiFi – assuming he doesn't have the two options above checked. If the files are still there then they are stored locally.

It would make no sense to only have files in the cloud, opening that 1.5GB Photoshop document or 124gb Final Cut Pro Project over the internet would be unworkable.

Have a read of these, they explain both the Desktop & Documents concept as well as the Optimize Storage functionality:

macOS Sierra: Store your desktop and documents in iCloud Drive

Add your Desktop and Documents files to iCloud Drive - Apple Support

Free up storage space on your Mac - Apple Support

Almost nothing you wrote is correct. I stopped reading at 4, so there may be something useful in the FUD you are attempting to foist.

Your Desktop and Documents folders are still in your Home folder. Nothing has been moved anywhere. They are marked with an extended attribute that tells Finder not to display them in your Home, but to display them in your iCloud Drive folder. Almost nothing in the iCloud Drive folder is displayed as it actually exists in the file system (~/Library/Mobile Documents folder).

If you understand unix, try listing your home folder and your Mobile Documents folder.

Oooh, Look, Magic....

Folder, simply because you named it such, you can't just name any folder "Documents" and have it magically become the OS recognized Documents Folder, just because you named it such.

Actually, you can. If you manage to delete your Documents folder in your Home folder, you can create a new folder and name it Documents. "Magically," it does become "the OS recognized Documents Folder."

So, reversing the process and taking the now-named "iCloud drive (archive)" folder, changing the name back to "Documents", and dragging it in the Finder back into the Home Folder, DOESN'T WORK.

That's not how you disable Desktop and Documents. You disable it from iCloud System Preferences and move the files from the iCloud Drive folder back into your Home folder Desktop and Documents folders. If you are "mid-upload"

I read the links.

The language used by Apple in those documents is that the contents of the local Documents folder is "moved" to iCloud Drive.

It doesn't say "copied".

It doesn't say "alias'".

It doesn't say "synced or mirrored"

It doesn't say "extended attribute"

Apple says right there in their own support document, more than once, that the users Documents Folder and it's contents are "MOVED" to iCloud Drive.

Work it it out with Apple.

They wrote it.

Yes that is correct, the iCloud Drive is the name of a folder located on your computer that is then synced to the Cloud. That folder is not only in the cloud, it works in the same way as the DropBox folder, the Box folder, etc. They are all located on your computer and then synced to their respect clouds.

This is where you will find that folder on your computer:

Your HD > Users > [your name] > Library > Mobile Documents > iCloud Drive

so Apple moves the documents folder from:

Your HD > Users > [your name] > Documents

and puts it into the iCloud Drive folder.

There is nothing to "Work it it out with Apple." The iCloud drive is located on your computer. It is copied/synchronized to the online cloud. So if you move a file to the iCloud drive, which is located on your computer, its contents are synced with the online Cloud storage.

You may well have described accurately what actually takes place and how it works, but that is separate and distinct from what the Apple document says.

The Apple document isn't describing what happens when a USER "moves" a document.

The Apple documentation referenced in this thread says, when the user ACTIVATES the iCloud Drive Desktop and Documents feature, APPLE, "MOVES", the Documents Folder and contents to the cloud.

When a USER, CHOOSES, to "move" a file is something completely different and not what this thread has been about. This thread has been about what happens automatically at a system level when a user activates the feature.

Based on that distinction, the Apple documentation states that upon activation of the feature, automatically, without any user involvement, the Documents Folder is MOVED to iCloud Drive. (Read it. That's what it says.)

The local Documents Folder is then automatically renamed "iCloud Drive ARCHIVE"

At a minimum, there are a lot of confused users and the existing documentation from Apple is wholly inadequate. I've spoken with Apple Support on the phone and at the local Genius Bar and they are completely clueless about how this works and what actually happens upon activation.

The best analogy so far has been comparing it to DropBox. But on a "user comprehension" level, it just makes matters worse to have Apple call the local Documents folder an "Archive". An archive is a dormant file remanded to deep storage. In the case of iCloud Drive, the way you guys are describing it, this poorly named "archive" isn't an archive at all. Rather it's very much a live, active, vibrant, connected, synchronized document, fully engaged with iCloud Drive.

Ill chock it all up to inaccurate, poorly written, confusing Apple documentation, combined with a total failure of Apple to communicate anything meaningful, down to consumer facing staff. It's no wonder there's so much confusion.