Looks like no one’s replied in a while. To start the conversation again, simply ask a new question.

I/O Plugin Solution?

I have read and tried every suggestion about using the I/O Plugin to no avail.

Can anyone out there explain it to me in the simplest possible terms, ie. without using "the environment" which I have never been able to grok.

My goal is to run my main output, 1-2, through my dbx tube compressor and EQ/Limiter, back into Logic and then bounce the mix as interleaved stereo. I assume you can't do this from Waveburner which would probably make more sense for mastering, which is what I'm trying to do.

Apparently, there is a b*g in Logic that prevents the logic-al technique of just inserting the I/O Plugin in the main output channel.

I am trying to master my cd this weekend, so any solutions that I can understand will save my ***.

Thanks,
Johan Carlisle

G5 Dual 2.0 Mac OS X (10.4.6) 2 GB RAM * Logic Pro 7.20 * RME Fireface 800 dbx 566 tube compressor * dbx 586 tube preamp/eq/limit

Posted on Dec 16, 2006 1:54 PM

Reply
Question marked as Best reply

Posted on Dec 16, 2006 2:31 PM

I can't see that what you want to do is difficult if you have a multi-input i/o card.

Simply plug the outputs of your interface from 1/2 to the compressor.

Run the outputs of the compressor back into two inputs of your interface and record those inputs back into a stereo track in Logic - just make sure you mute the tracks that are record-enabled so you don't get a phasey sound because of the slight latency of the converters or worse, feedback.

The big limitation of this is that you'll have to do some tricks to be able to monitor the compressor output - unless the compressor has a headphone jack. In that case, monitor from the compressor.

For instance, you could use a bus send on the two input tracks to feed a separate output pair on your converter and monitor that output. You could also just assign the stereo track to a different set of outputs than 1/2 and monitor those.

If nothing else, record a portion of the song without monitoring; listen to just that part; and then adjust the compressor settings until it sounds right.

This approach does assume you have a way to monitor the bus signal output separately from the main 1/2 outputs (like an external mixer).

See...no environment 😉
16 replies
Question marked as Best reply

Dec 16, 2006 2:31 PM in response to Johan Carlisle

I can't see that what you want to do is difficult if you have a multi-input i/o card.

Simply plug the outputs of your interface from 1/2 to the compressor.

Run the outputs of the compressor back into two inputs of your interface and record those inputs back into a stereo track in Logic - just make sure you mute the tracks that are record-enabled so you don't get a phasey sound because of the slight latency of the converters or worse, feedback.

The big limitation of this is that you'll have to do some tricks to be able to monitor the compressor output - unless the compressor has a headphone jack. In that case, monitor from the compressor.

For instance, you could use a bus send on the two input tracks to feed a separate output pair on your converter and monitor that output. You could also just assign the stereo track to a different set of outputs than 1/2 and monitor those.

If nothing else, record a portion of the song without monitoring; listen to just that part; and then adjust the compressor settings until it sounds right.

This approach does assume you have a way to monitor the bus signal output separately from the main 1/2 outputs (like an external mixer).

See...no environment 😉

Dec 16, 2006 2:58 PM in response to lwilliam

Thanks for the quick reply.

I'm still confused, though.

RE: > Run the outputs of the compressor back into two
inputs of your interface and record those inputs back
into a stereo track in Logic -


Question: How do you play a song and record on a track in that song at the same time?

RE: . . . Use a bus send on the two
input tracks to feed a separate output pair on your
converter and monitor that output.


Which two input tracks? I'm trying to master the entire mix through my hardware and back into Logic to bounce. I've tried every combination of sending the main output to a track, which doesn't work. I've tried using the I/O plugin which the manual says should work. In that case I do get a signal showing up in Fireface mixer but it doesn't go back as an input into Logic, or show up in the Fireface mixer.

So, thanks for the suggestions, but unless I'm missing something basic here, which is totally possible, I'm still looking for a simple solution for mastering an album's worth of songs.


G5 Dual 2.0 Mac OS X (10.4.6) 2 GB RAM * Logic Pro 7.10 * RME Fireface

Dec 16, 2006 3:29 PM in response to Johan Carlisle

Question: How do you play a song and record on a
track in that song at the same time?


Uhh...Arm a track and hit the "*" key? Have you ever done an overdub? The BIG difference is you don't want to monitor that input track along with the rest of the tracks at the same time as it won't sound right - there are delays involved, so you need to either mute the track, or monitor it some other way such as through a bus output or re-directing the track output to another output pair on the Fireface, and monitor that signal.

RE: . . . Use a bus send on the two
input tracks to feed a separate output pair on

your
converter and monitor that output.


Which two input tracks?


Inputs on the Fireface coming from the compressor output. For example inputs 3/4. Select that as the source for a new track in the arrange page.

Regardless of how many songs you have, each song can be done separately as above. Then simply import each "mastered" song file (from the input track above) into Waveburner and burn away.

Without being there and showing you, it may be hard to explain. However, it is certainly do-able. No i/o plugin is required.

Dec 16, 2006 4:13 PM in response to lwilliam

Thanks again, Williams.

I do know how to overdub, but it's not working for this purpose, for some reason. When I overdub, I'm not recording all the other tracks.?

I just tried setting the main output bus 1-2 to output 3-4. I set an audio track input to 3-4. The Fireface is set the same way. The only signal I get on the audio track is when I turn the input or output level on the compressor up enough so it squeals.

I also have no way of knowing what exactly (which tracks) I'm sending this way. My main output bus (Output 1-2) shows no levels at all this way.

SO, I just reconnected output 1-2 from the fireface into the compressor and recorded a strong but bad signal (shows it's working but needs to be adjusted in the compressor I guess) on the audio track. So, if that works as you suggest, then I have to figure out how to do it normally. Otherwise, I can't monitor. Geesh. Isn't there a simple way to do this?

I'm not complaining. But. . .

So, if I do it that way, how do I monitor? The compressor doesn't have a headphone jack. The fireface does but what am I monitoring?

For one thing, I don't get any levels on the main bus out this way. Also, I'm only getting the right channel, for some reason.

I'm also getting a very tinny sound, if I set the compressor high enough to get a recordable signal.

I appreciate your suggestions. I'll keep trying this and that.

Thanks,
Johan



G5 Dual 2.0 Mac OS X (10.4.6) 2 G Ram * Logic Pro 7.20 * RME Fireface dbx 566 tube compress dbx 586 EQ/Limite

Dec 16, 2006 4:33 PM in response to Johan Carlisle

Yes, you can use the I/O plug on the master 1/2. You do need a multi output interface to make things easy and audible.

1> Put the I/O on the master 1/2 output
2> Select the stereo pair to output FROM THE PLUG TO THE HARDWARE (I use 7/8)
3> Select the stereo pair to return TO THE PLUG
4> Hardwire outputs 7/8 of your interface to the DBX
5> Hardwire the outputs of the DBX to inputs 7/8 on your interface
6> Press play and dial it up
7> Bounce in REAL TIME

Here's a shot of the plug on my 1/2 outputs:
http://www3.telus.net/thewitt/io.png

If you just ahve a 2 in 2 out device then you have no way to monitor with out spliting or using a headphone out.

Dec 16, 2006 4:44 PM in response to Johan Carlisle

I just did a test of this method on my own system and it does work.

1. I imported a previous song into a new session as a stereo file
2. I took the main output of that track (my mixer) and using a submix send on the mixer, fed it to a new input track in Logic.
3. I armed the new track and recorded it while the track was muted. As I predicted there was a very noticeable delay of about a 1/2 of a SMPTE frame.

It would be the same no matter how many tracks are playing

This can all be done with the Fireface as well.

One more time:

1. leave the song and track outputs the way they were: outputs 1/2
2. plug a cable from outputs 1/2 to the compressor L/R input
3. take the compressor outputs and plug them into the Fireface 3/4 inputs
4. create a new stereo track in Logic; assign its input to inputs 3/4
5. Mute the track; then arm it with the record button
6. IMPORTANT: set the output level and the compressor to zero changes - you want to start with as clean a signal as possible. If there is a bypass switch on the compressor, use it; otherwise set the compression ratio to 1:1 and the output to "nominal" or "0" or something similar.
6. from the beginning of the song, hit the "*" to put the song into record.
7. check the levels from the compressor to make sure it's not overdriving the input and that you're getting a strong enough signal
8. Monitoring adds a lot of complexity to this setup, so let's just ignore it for now.
9. Stop playback and solo the new track to see what it sounds like.
10. Adjust the compressor to a different setting; re-record part of the song again; adjust compressor; re-record, etc. until you're happy with the sound, then record the whole song.

This is the trial-and-error way, but it will still work. You can add monitoring, by outputting the new track somewhere else (say, outputs 7/8) to save time, but I think that's a bit difficult to explain briefly and it's not exactly simple to set up. You'd have to find a way to hear ONLY outputs 7/8. Soloing the track won't work. If you know how to get the Fireface to monitor only 7/8, then you're home free.

For your next CD, you should try different monitoring schemes - or figure out how to get that i/o plugin working. I haven't used it, so I can't help there.

Dec 16, 2006 4:57 PM in response to lwilliam

Hey Johan. I had no idea the i/o plugin worked the way Timothy explained it. I used to the do the same thing in Protools to use a Lexicon reverb as a send/return (it worked a little differently, but the same concept).

Ignore all my stuff - use his explanation. It's really, really simple. The only thing you need to do in the environment is find your output 1/2 channel strip. It will be all the way to the right; then add the i/o plugin.

Think of the environment as your super mixer for everything you could do in Logic. It's just a big mixer for this purpose.

The i/o plugin is listed under Logic > helpers

Dec 16, 2006 5:07 PM in response to Timothy B Hewitt

OK. Thanks Timothy. And thanks again Williams.

First, Timothy has the I/O Plugin working for me now. I don't know why it didn't work before.

But, there are problems still.
First, the signal sounds tinny no matter how I set the compressor. Even bypassing. Now, I have to admit here, I just bought the compressor used and can't vouch for it completely. But, I have used it successfully in other ways, such as tracking a guitar, so I think it's working and I understand how to make it work, in a beginning kinda way.

Second, the I/O plugin input volume doesn't seem to be working so I'm not sure what I'm hearing when I play the song.

So, any ideas about this would be appreciated. I feel like we're making progress and thank everyone for that.

As for Willams way, so to speak, I think I'll let that alone for now since the I/O plugin seems to be starting to work. It allows me to monitor without a lot of cable switching which is hard in my setup.

But thanks again Williams. I may come back and try your way again if this other one doesn't pan out.

Peace,
Johan

G5 Dual 2.0 Mac OS X (10.4.6) 2 G Ram * Logic Pro 7.20 * RME Fireface dbx 566 tube compress dbx 586 EQ/Limite

G5 Dual 2.0 Mac OS X (10.4.6) 2 G Ram * Logic Pro 7.20 * RME Fireface dbx 566 tube compress dbx 586 EQ/Limite

Dec 16, 2006 6:10 PM in response to Johan Carlisle

Tinny: The I/O plug itself does nothing to the sound. Check it by bypassing the plug itself. I would check your cables and DBX settings. The unit you describe has lots of features - many ways to reduce fidelity. Check it out, be sure you are bypassing everything.

I/O plug input/output volume: When incorporated correctly they work as expected - changing the gain to and from the external device. Again - check you cables.

Good luck

Dec 16, 2006 6:30 PM in response to Timothy B Hewitt

Thanks Timothy.

I guess I'll have to say, after much experimentation, that the I/O plugin is NOT working right.

1. If I bypass the plugin, I get the full mix. With the plugin selected and the compressor bypassed, I get a strange harmonica-like tinny sound.

2. With the compressor working, the sound is weak. If I change the input, or output levels, or any other setting, to get a strong signal, it feedsback and sounds tinny.

3. As mentioned earlier, the I/O Plugin Output volume is working but the Input volume is not working at all.

4. There is still no signal on the Main Output level on the mixer, although there is a strong signal on a Multimeter plugin before the I/O plugin.

Just to update where I'm at for connections.
I've followed Timothy's setup:
1> Put the I/O on the master 1/2 output
2> Select the stereo pair to output FROM THE PLUG TO THE HARDWARE (I use 7/8)
3> Select the stereo pair to return TO THE PLUG
4> Hardwire outputs 7/8 of your interface to the DBX
5> Hardwire the outputs of the DBX to inputs 7/8 on your interface
6> Press play and dial it up
7> Bounce in REAL TIME

Thanks for any suggestions.

Johan

G5 Dual 2.0 Mac OS X (10.4.6) 2 G * Logic Pro 7.20 * RME Fireface dbx566 tube compressor dbx586 EQ/Limiter

Dec 16, 2006 7:04 PM in response to Bee Jay

I think you may be right Bee Jay. Thanks.

Now, I can't quite figure out how to do this:

"Route everything to a buss."

I looked in the manual and no explanation.

Each channel has busses which I use to add reverb, etc.

Is there another buss routing system?

Thanks for help with what must be a basic task.

Also, I think I found out what the tinny sound is. I think it's crossed wires, so to speak, in Matrix, Fireface's confusing, to me, virtual patchbay.

If someone who uses the RME Fireface 800 could explain to me how to set all of this up in Matrix, that would be cool.

Once again, here's my setup:
1> Put the I/O on the master 1/2 output
2> Select the stereo pair to output FROM THE PLUG TO THE HARDWARE (I use 7/8)
3> Select the stereo pair to return TO THE PLUG
4> Hardwire outputs 7/8 of your interface to the DBX
5> Hardwire the outputs of the DBX to inputs 7/8 on your interface
6> Press play and dial it up
7> Bounce in REAL TIME
from Timothy

Thanks all,
Johan

G5 Dual 2.0 Mac OS X (10.4.6) 2 G * Logic Pro 7.20 * RME Fireface dbx566 tube compressor dbx586 EQ/Limiter

I/O Plugin Solution?

Welcome to Apple Support Community
A forum where Apple customers help each other with their products. Get started with your Apple ID.