Tidal FLAC streaming

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Level 1

21 points

Tidal FLAC streaming

Don't seem to be able to find a definitive answer, but maybe I haven't looked hard enough.

I'm streaming Tidal HiFi – FLAC 1411 kbps Lossless (16/44.1 khz) – files over Airplay from 2013 Macbook Pro (Sierra 10.12.1) to M-CR611 Melody Media. I've read somewhere that Airplay doesn't handle FLAC so will convert it to something it can handle. Sorry but I'm pretty thick when it comes to all this so I guess my questions are: (1) Are the files converted before Airplay and if so does the track end up not sounding as good as it should (it certainly sounds better than Spotify); (2) Other than hardwiring to the Marantz, which I don't want to do, is there any way round this if I'm not getting the full FLAC experience via Airplay at the moment. I could use the iOS app on my iphone 5s or iPad Air (if I can wrench it out of my wife's hands!) but prefer the Macbook.

I did contact Marantz regarding this and their reply was:

"I've just tested on an AV receiver (so I can see the stream information) which uses the same network module as the M-CR611. The incoming stream from Airplay shows as Stereo PCM which would indicate that there is no conversion on the stream, I hope this helps."

so I guess my question is pretty much answered by Marantz but would be good to know exactly what's going on when I Airplay.

MacBook Pro with Retina display, macOS Sierra (10.12.1)

Posted on Dec 13, 2016 3:53 AM

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Answer 1

dialabrain

Level 10

122,501 points

Dec 13, 2016 5:55 AM in response to C_J_W

FWIW, Macs do not support FLAC natively so there is no way for them to convert FLAC files. Trust your friendly Marantz tech.

FWIW, I signed up for a Tidal trial after I read your post. I'll see if I think the cost is justified.

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Answer 2

Dec 13, 2016 6:46 AM in response to C_J_W

AirPlay is a proprietary protocol that uses the Apple Lossless codec (at up to 16/44.1 kHz), encryption, metadata forwarding, and a combination of networking stacks. The audio that the Marantz is receiving is not the native FLAC file, but an ALAC stream, as long as your network is fast enough (throttling may happen under poor network conditions). I'm guessing that the Marantz is seeing the stream as Stereo PCM because AirPlay is embedding that tag in metadata.

So you're always going to be at the mercy of the weakest link in the chain, whether that's Tidal, Apple, your network, Marantz, your cabling, etc.. But the way AirPlay should work in this case is FLAC-to-ALAC ––– lossless all the way!

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Answer 3

C_J_W Author

Level 1

21 points

Dec 13, 2016 6:37 AM in response to dialabrain

Thanks dialabrain - hope you think the extra for tidal is worth it - afterall it's only a few cups of coffee!!

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Answer 4

C_J_W Author

Level 1

21 points

Dec 13, 2016 6:46 AM in response to SpudIncognito

Thanks Spudincognito, as I thought and as Marantz said so I'm happy. I'm hardwired to the network on 150Mbps so no issues there. As I say, it sounds better but just wondering if it was sounding as good as it should be.

Cheers

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Answer 5

dialabrain

Level 10

122,501 points

Dec 13, 2016 7:51 AM in response to C_J_W

C_J_W wrote:

Thanks dialabrain - hope you think the extra for tidal is worth it - afterall it's only a few cups of coffee!!

You're welcome. I have to listen a bit more but my immediate impression is Tidal Hi-Fi is not twice the quality of Spotify Premium. I have listened to the same material on both playing through a headphone DAC on a pair of Sennheisers. I will stream them both to my home system a bit later.

Neither sounds like vinyl and honestly I only listen to streams when I'm not seriously listening.

Will test further. 😎

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Answer 6

C_J_W Author

Level 1

21 points

Dec 13, 2016 10:32 AM in response to dialabrain

I'm using a reasonable pair of Keff headphones and although Tidal does sound a bit better the difference is more obvious when streaming through the Marantz system even though it's nowhere near the best system they make. Don't expect it to sound "twice the quality" but certainly, to me anyway, the sound's not so "muddy". Not sure I'm happy giving money to the owners of Tidal though! Then again there's always Qobuz. 😁

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Answer 7

dialabrain

Level 10

122,501 points

Dec 13, 2016 12:08 PM in response to C_J_W

What matters is which sounds better to you and is that difference worth the price. I worked in high end audio for years and some people are willing to spend 10x, 100x, 1000x the price for a small increase in quality. Only you can decide what an increase in sound quality is worth. You're the one listening. 😎

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Answer 8

C_J_W Author

Level 1

21 points

Dec 14, 2016 1:26 AM in response to dialabrain

You're exactly right. Most people seem unable to hear any difference in sound quality between MP3 and "CD quality" and think they have a decent set of headphones if they spend £20 or £30 on them - you're not going to hear any difference with that level of equipment anyway, but if they're happy that's all that matters.

Would like to think that maybe one day Apple Music will start streaming and downloading lossless but once again I guess that most people are happy with what they get at the moment as the majority are probably listening on the move while on trains etc

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Answer 9

dialabrain

Level 10

122,501 points

Dec 14, 2016 5:25 AM in response to C_J_W

I envy those who can't hear differences. I got used to very high end sound decades ago now but the price for that level of sound has gone up almost exponentially. I can't afford over $100k sound systems.

I listened to Tidal a bit more and overall I would say it sounds better. If it was my only source of listening I could see the cost as being worth it.

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Answer 10

C_J_W Author

Level 1

21 points

Dec 14, 2016 6:30 AM in response to dialabrain

Yes, wish my ears weren't quite so efficient. I can't justify or afford spending a fortune on high end equipment either but I like to get the best out of what I've got.

Been good chatting - all the best

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Answer 11

dialabrain

Level 10

122,501 points

Dec 14, 2016 6:46 AM in response to C_J_W

Same to you.

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