Cannot boot from any Mac OS partition but can from an old Win XP Boot Camp partition

Loner T wrote:

Can you disconnect these clones to avoid a possible conflict and check again?

Those drives are no longer in the machine - only the SSD with OS 10.11.3 (and a Boot Camp partition + a recovery partition) all of which are fine in theMacBook Pro in an external USB external housing.

Loner T wrote:

You may want to look at About Mac startup tones - Apple Support and check what tones you get on your MP.

I've seen that page. None of the tones they list apply here.

Hi Eric,

It's not an OS issue - I've tried all OS's I have on active volumes - 10.6.8, 10.8.5 (which is my preferred system-I need the color labels). This is also a newly reinstalled system. I also use 10.11.3. I have recovery partitions for both 10.8.5 and 10.11.3. I have 10.8.5 on a 32 GB USB drive that I use in emergencies; there is the TechTool Pro eDrive partition as well as the original Mac Pro install disks with OS 10.5.4. Finally there is a new Disk Warrior 5.0 flash drive with a system that can boot the Mac.

None - NOT ONE - of these volumes, regular or recovery, get past the Apple logo. I can hold down option key where starting up - that works - showing every bootable volume internally or externally. Not one of these boot volumes (except Windows on Boot Camp) gets past the Apple logo screen. They turn the gear, or with 10.11.3 the progress bar, the gear stops at about 11:00 o'clock and the progress bar mid way. Then black screen, kernel panic screen, a few seconds and then all go back to the Apple logo and repeat the process over and over.

I don't know the exact order that booting follows - but I know all initial processes are run from the Mac ROM or, I understand, also from an EPROM chip containing open firmware that can be added to or overwritten with updates. If everything operates correctly then there are enough start up instructions in those hardware chips to find a selected boot volume or any other that may be present and start moving the operating system into RAM until a desktop appears.

That is not happening here - there is an attempt to access the volumes but it stops. Since every device I mentioned above is known to be good (the original install disks are read-only DVD's and are not scratched - the data is pristine - as would be the Disk Warrior drive. The issue is the in boot process that exists in hardware, not in any boot device.

At this point I'm trying to find out if boot instructions are included in the open firmware (as opposed to the Mac ROM chip that's soldered to the Intel board). If that were the case it might be possible to clear the chip or over- write the old, possibly corrupted instructions, with new ones. Beyond that might be replacing the Mac chips on the board with new ones. If that's not possible then it probably needs a new board, which I'd have to check on eBay or other Mac repair sites. Apple won't do it (I asked) but they do concur with my diagnosis. Best Buy's Apple certified techs don't have a clue even after I brought in the machine, showed them Windows Boot Camp running and Mac volumes flashing Apple logos, black and kernel panic screens.

Why just the Mac boot process at fault? Because the same Intel board that runs the Mac also runs the Boot Camp Windows partition-which works.

And when I hold down the Mac's option key after powering up I can also see the Windows Boot Camp partition just fine. And when I click it Windows just OPENS! It doesn't need the Mac boot stuff - It has it's own BIOS built into the initial Boot Camp install setup. It runs, uses the Mac's RAM and any part of the Intel board it needs.

The Mac has all that too, but, presently, not the booting instructions it needs to be a Mac. So all is fine except what's supposed to boot the Mac from the logic board.

Any suggestions on the particulars of the Mac's boot process - from hardware instructions within the hardware chips until it can mount the OS volume and open the desktop?

Thanks again,

MartyP

Hi Loner T,

Not sure how to format this as you did but I'll try just copying and pasting.

Loner T wrote:

When was the last time any of the OS X version booted successfully?

I don't know exact dates but 10.11.3 a few weeks previously. 10.8.5, which was the volume I was using, mainly worked until the problem began. A 10.8.5 OS on a USB drive about two months previous when I had some issue with the main 10.8.5 volume that Disk Warrior fixed. The Disk Warrior 5 volume (on flash drive) was used then and to clean up stuff on non boot volumes. And recovery volumes for 10.8.5 and 10.11 were used a few months back and worked okay.

The problem started a few weeks ago when I noticed an odd pixelation on my left monitor and a strange red color vibrating fringing that seemed to follow the contours of a photographs outline against its background. When that happened the the system froze and had to be restarted. The restart was okay and the problem didn't repeat for a week or so. The second time it happened was like the first, pixelation and fringing on border details and freezing. The third time was the same but then the Mac wouldn't boot at all - the problem that exists now, described earlier.

Loner T wrote:

Did the BB Techs run a SMC Reset on the MP? Is the Windows disk a dedicated MBR-only disk? A new Logic Board diagnosis seems faulty, because the same Logic Board runs Windows too. Replacing the Logic Board may leave you in the same state.

I had done the SMC reset twice (The Mac Pro has a reset button on the logic board so it was easier than the power on/off timing usually used. The SMC reset had no effect. The only change is that lately when I try to boot it still freezes, but the kernel panic screen doesn't appear - it goes from black screen to the white screen and then immediately to the apple logo, black screen - repeat.

The BB techs really had no idea what was wrong. They just said that that I should reformat the disk and restore from a backup and I'd be just fine. I brought in the Mac Pro and they could watch two Mac volumes I brought along start to boot then fail with the same pattern: White screen - Apple logo then gear spinning or progress bar moving - then all stops, then black screen - kernel panic screen and repeat. And also watch the Boot Camp partition just boot and run Windows XP Pro - a partition I hadn't used in 4 or 5 years (I've been running Windows under Parallels for a new years, and VM Ware before that). But not sure what you mean by a dedicated MBR=only disk. The Boot Camp partition was partitioned from my old OS 10.6.8 volume - it's not a separate volume, just an NTFS formatted partition that Boot Camp created, if I remember correctly.

The odds that all six Mac volumes (and three recovery volumes) I have is defective isn't possible. The original install disks (OS 10.5.4) even generate the old style kernel panic screen (black square, white fonts over gray background vs more current gray fonts over light gray bkgd. Everything Mac won't boot from 10.5.4 to 10.11.3.

Loner T wrote:

The issue you seem to have is that an EFI OS does not boot correctly. All OS X versions are EFI Boot. Mixing OS X versions which use SIP and older versions that do not, is fraught with issues. I suggest you try the SMC Reset first.

Do you have a second Mac?

I was using my old 2006 MacBook to write the original post but have since gotten a refurb 2014 MacBook Pro with a full Apple warranty (I won't buy the newer all Thunderbolt MBP's - too many things from the 2008 Mac Pro I needed to use without dongles hanging all over. That new MBP came with problems as well that took a few days to sort or resolve with Apple, hence the delay in responding. As noted the SMC reset was tried. NVRAM reset and any other flavor of start up (safe boot, single user, verbose, whatever). Nothing works. Without booting I can't access a terminal command line, not that that would help.

You have a far better understanding of the firmware/hardware dimension of all this than I do. My analytical take on this is that as long as Windows boots in Boot Camp the logic board is essentially functioning normally. What seems to be affected is just the Mac's booting instructions either contained in the Mac's proprietary Boot ROM chip and possibly an EEPROM chip that contains the open firmware that can be overwritten and updated. I don't know specifically what the chips contain but I seem to remember that Macs had a chip that took a stock Intel board and made it a Mac and some chip, separate or integrated, that could be reprogrammed, if need be, with firmware and possible firmware updates. You may know about that in far more detail than I do.

From my side, at this point, being able to reinstall the firmware seems the only way to get the machine working again without resorting to replacing chips or changing the board. If the problem is in the proprietary Mac ROM chip then it would have to be replaced (Apple won't do that and those chips aren't easily available - Best Buy said they can't do that). After that only a board swap or heading to eBay and buying someone's old Mac Pro and take my chances. The odds that Apple will go back to the more functional/expandable Mac Pro from their bare bones 2013 cylinder is remote. Even then, I still need to use older OS's (via Rosetta) so I still need to get this machine working or get another of a similar vintage. If Apple would make past OS's, those for Motorola 68000 CPU's and the IBM Power PC's available for use in Parallels or VMWare a lot, but not all of my problems would be solved.

Any suggestions still gratefully appreciated.

MartyP

Loner T wrote:

I personally do not like Disk Warrior, or tools of similar ilk. But if they work for you, well and good.

You have a 2014 MBP. Can you bring up the MP in Target Disk Mode? If yes, and you have appropriate cables and adapters, we can look at the MP disks and check them out for any issues. What is the version of OS X on the MBP?

Been trying 2 days to get back here. Couldn't sign in - just got a white screen. Finally switched from Firefox to Safari and sign in problem is gone. Have to check if recent Firefox update to 51.0.1 was the problem.

I've been using Disk Warrior since it was introduced - I've found it to be better than all the other disk utilities. When a disk was really broken, it got fixed, always. Not so with TechTool Pro, Speed Tools, Disk Tool Pro or Apple's Disk Utility. My opinion only. I have no real experience working with Terminal/command line instructions.

I put the old Mac Pro 10.6.8 volume in a USB box and it booted the old 2006 MacBook. So I knew that volume, from the Mac Pro was okay. The 10.11.3 volume, also from the Mac Pro, was removed before going to Best Buy to delete personal info. Put it in a USB box and it mounted (not booted) on the 2006 MacBook so I could remove most of the User/home folder files.

When the 2014 MacBook Pro arrived I used the same 10.11.13 volume in the USB box to boot the MBP with no problems. The other volumes are too old, OS-wise, to boot the MBP. So there are no problems booting the MBP (or the old MacBook) with two of the three volumes that no longer will boot the Mac Pro.

The MBP is running 10.10.2 and I'll update that soon. I don't have the Thunderbolt to Firewire cable I'd need to do Target Disk Mode from MP to MBP, but using the 10.11.3 volume to boot the MBP is essentially doing the same thing.

If it were possible to read out, erase and reinstall firmware through the MBP to the MP that's a totally different story. But as far as I know, TDM is just to mount and use volumes on another machine, and couldn't do what I need. Correct me if I'm wrong.

The Mac Pro seems to be a hardware issue - whether in firmware or boot ROM or some other area that's Mac specific - especially since Boot Camp/Windows still runs normally. If you have any ideas on how I might address the hardware/firmware problem, or anything I might have missed, I'm open to any suggestions. But the Mac Pro's volumes appear to be working normally when out of the MP.

Many thanks for the time.

MartyP

When trying to boot the Mac Pro starting with option key held down brought up BootManager and showed all bootable volumes (three MacOS, two Windows on Boot Camp partitions and two 2 TB cloned partitions on a 4TB drive that are bootable **'s of 10.6.8 and 10.8.5 - all the four drive bays on the internal SATA II bus were used.

Everything showing in BootManager was correct and all were tried to boot the Mac Pro and all failed to boot in exactly the same way, except for the Boot Camp partitions which booted fine, opened applications and saved small Word files - as well as connected online with Ethernet through Safari for Windows, Firefox and Internet Explorer. Boot volumes attached via the front USB ports also showed up in BootManager and also failed to boot past the Apple logo as did the original install DVD's tried in the internal Super drives or whatever Apple calls the optical disk drives.

From Explorer in XP the Mac volumes showed up in My Computer (I forget the disk letters) but were not accessible as they are GUID partitions and not formatted NTFS.

And all RAM other than the 2 GB OEM was pulled - as well as all PCIe cards (not the graphics card) and each internal drive was tried alone (other three pulled out) just to be sure one wasn't producing some possible spurious signal or anomaly that might interfere with the others booting.

Also tried to get the hardware test to run by using original install disk 2 and holding the D key but nothing happened - either D or Cmd-D, It would not run and the disk is now stuck in the optical drive - even holding the mouse button down when I power down and then try to restart. I'm going to try downloading the EFI firmware 1.3 update using the MacBook Pro and burn the image file to a CD and try to get that into the MacPro - using instructions at <//support.apple.com/en-us/HT1557>

Now an hour later - burned the CD on the MacBook Pro and the firmware file is there (opened the CD in MacBook Pro). Followed instructions but when I hold in power button on Mac Pro I get a very rapidly flashing LED (maybe 15-20 flashes) then three seconds later one tone. Holding longer does nothing - letting go of the power button lets the 10.11.3 volume that's now back in the machine try to boot but it can't. There were no 3 quick blinks, 3 slow blinks and 3 quick blinks - and the tray didn't open. When I shut down and held the left mouse switch while turning on the Mac Pro I got the disk tray to open, put in the restore disk and repeated the shut down and held the power switch in. Just the rapid flashes and the short tone and nothing. The optical drive is spinning but nothing is happening.

I'm now assuming that something in the non-firmware Boot ROM is messed up if the built in instructions to cause the blinking light and tone doesn't even work as Apple's instructions says it should. There was a moment of hope, now gone.

Me thinks the options duth runneth out!

Time for some sleep. Take care,

MartyP

We've been through this previously and it's all in the thread above. Nothing Mac boots, period! The original install disks don't work - safe boot, single user mode, verbose mode, NVRAM reset, SMC reset a few times - nothing works. Two of the volumes (some with Boot Camp partitions and/or recovery volumes work just fine on an older 2006 MacBook (10.6.8 volume) and 10.11.13 with Boot Camp and a 10.11 recovery volume all work on the MacBook Pro (but not Boot Camp as it can't work when in an external USB box. The 10.8.5 volume which I was using when it crapped out can't be booted on the other two laptops because the 2006 MacBook is too old and stops at 10.6.8 and the 2014 MacBook Pro starts at 10.9.5. But that's neither here nor there..

The issue is no longer the Mac boot volumes. Boot Camp boots an old WinXP Pro partition and Windows just works. The Mac side does absolutely nothing as noted in past posts.

The issue now is purely hardware. I cannot open the Apple Hardware test that is on Install Disk 2 which should open when the disk is inserted and the "D" key is pressed. I can get both optical drives to open by holding the left mouse switch down when pressing the power button to on. But a disk inserted doesn't read but does spin (drive activity is loud enough to hear) - when the "C" key is pressed at start up.

I have two disks made from images downloaded from Apple to restore EFI firmware for the 2008 Mac Pro (Mac Pro EFI Firmware Update 1.3 and Firmware Restoration CD 1.5).I can't get the machine to see the disks or even open the drive trays. Holding the power button in for a few seconds is supposed to cause the LED above the power button to flash fast three times, then three times slower and then three times fast after which there should be a tone and the tray should open to allow the restoration CD to be inserted. That just doesn't happen

When the power button is held in there is a very rapid flashing for about a second (too fast to count) and then a tone. The disk trays don't open to insert the disks. If I get a disk in a tray after holding the mouse key on and then shutting down and trying hold in the power key in for the three groups of flashes I mentioned before, the disks do not read at all although there is disk activity. I let it run for a long time to be sure and waited for a tone supposed to signal the EFI firmware was restored. Never got that tone.

So that's where it is now. If it's a software issue, then it's in the instructions in the boot ROM, not in any of the volumes I tried - whether original install disks, restore volumes or boot volumes of different Mac OS's. But Windows does boot.

The only new thing I can add was on a paper I wrote when the machine froze for the last time, after which it wouldn't boot at all (all discussed at the top of the thread). I just found that slip of paper and had forgotten I even wrote it. When the system froze for the last time there was a sound I forgot to mention when I started all this - it was very much like "honk honk." So maybe a goose got into the ROM chip? And also a week of two before the problem started the Mac's normal start up chime was very, very low, much lower than is normal for that startup sound.

So that's where it is now. It's something in hardware - all Mac volumes work in other Macs except for the 10.8.5 which I can't boot for the compatibility reasons noted above in the first paragraph. The EFI firmware update does not happen. Something in firmware or instructions that control low level processes is corrupted or otherwise damaged and it doesn't seem possible to correct it shot of replacing the components that contain those instructions.

Thanks for the time Loner T,

MartyP

I went to Apple first thing after it started about two weeks ago. Spent 2 hours on the phone with one of their techs - they really put in the time for a machine they consider obsolete. But I was also told that I couldn't bring it to the Apple store (ten minutes away) as the machine is obsolete - she gave me names of a few places. not nearby.

Also got another case number yesterday but I suspect they'll want me to pay for it - don't think my new AppleCare works on the old machine - but I'll try asking about the EFI firmware update.

At least I know pretty much where the problem is. But I'm having trouble with the new machine - too many apps going crazy that never had issues. Want to downgrade to 10.9.5 (the lowest it'll go). Firefox doesn't let me sign in to any site where I have an account - here or anywhere. Just get a white screen. So I'm back to Safari. SnapZ Pro takes screen shots but doesn't save it where I set it to in prefs. Doesn't even open the PDF like it used to so I can do a save as.

My old Acrobat Pro no longer prints images (shows them but they aren't [printed, though text is). My new T'Bolt PCIe expansion boxes are back to a problem I though was solved - one of my two large monitors was hooked through display port to minidisplayport into one of the two TB ports. It doesn't turn on now but did yesterday - whether it's in it's own TB port or daisy chained at the end of the expansion boxes. It began that way after I got the MacBook Pro and I spent a lot of time with OWC to try and determine the problem - all the while dealing with the old Mac Pro. Now I'm back to square one. Even Safari quit on it's own and when I restarted it wouldn't open the tabs from last session (grayed out). Had to use one of the Time Machine backups from a few hours before - dragged the Safari folder over to the User Library folder and got that working which is how I got to sign in to reply.

Enough of my problems - I'll see what Apple has to say but beyond that I have to schedule contractors for roofing and a lot of other stuff to start as soon as the weather gets a little warmer. The computers will have to wait - I just have no time - and I had a frozen pipe upstairs that burst two weeks ago when the X-troll tank lost pressure and the hot water stopped circulating on a cold day - that never happened before and freaked me out. But it was caught before too much damage happened in the living room below

Anyway, I miss analog days when things were more predictable. Take care - I'll be busy with other stuff for the next week or two.

MartyP