Messages: view by date

Hello folks,


anybody knows how to make massages being presented by date (in Mac OS Sierra Message app) Applying View-> sort conversations-> by date doesn't do the trick.

I still get 2 sections: one for messages sent with imessage, the other for messages sent via cell service (phone number)

that means that eventually messages are not sorted by date - quite the opposite to how it works on iOS, where all messages are sorted by date.


I don't really care whether a message has been sent via iMessage or phone number, but I like to see the being sorted by date.


cheers,

eveafterdark

MacBook Pro with Retina display, macOS Sierra (10.12.3), 13 inch with touch bar

Posted on Feb 26, 2017 6:44 AM

Reply
8 replies

Feb 26, 2017 1:28 PM in response to eveafterdark

Hi,


Could you post a Picture please ?


Having a friend you would not mind forcing their iPhone to use SMS as a test would be a good thing.

When they have their Phone off Wifi and with a poor carrier signal try sending an SMS from your iPhone.


If this works repeat one from your Mac which should see the "green" outgoing one from the iPhone if the sync for Text/SMS Forwarding is working.


Repeat from the iPhone if the other end is back on WiFi and you can do iMessages.

Does the Mac see the Sync and can you send from there ?


Occasionally the Mac can be not fully logged in to iMessages but as the ID is used in Messages and the iPhone at your end is linked via that ID and the LAN (WiFi) then you can find that SMS works but iMessages does not.

In this case you might have an older SMS message that was in fact the last one the Mac got as it is not getting iMessages.


There are similar issues is the Send and Receive on the iPhone gets the iPhone Number Unticked.

It should not happen as it is a greyed Out (always ON) not changeable by the user item but it does happen (I have had it twice).


If this is the case the Number becomes de-registered with the iMessages Servers leaving the Mac only using the Apple ID.

After a prolonged period the de-registration then effects the link between iPhone and Mac and the two are no longer linked for iMessages.


This then causes issues for Text Forwarding and getting SMS on the iPhone in the first place.


Trying to sort out which ID or iPhone number was the one that got the iMessages and displayed it at your end can be difficult to work out when you maybe seeing sync "copies" rather that originals as it were.




User uploaded file

8:06 pm Sunday; February 26, 2017


 iMac 2.5Ghz i5 2011 (Sierra)
 G4/1GhzDual MDD (Leopard 10.5.8)
 MacBookPro 2Gb (Snow Leopard 10.6.8)
 Mac OS X (10.6.8),
 iPhone 6 iOS 10.x and an iPad (2)

Feb 26, 2017 1:32 PM in response to Ralph-Johns-UK

User uploaded fileUser uploaded file


UPDATE: as I went through the conversations in the left panel, some are missing comparing to the conversations I have on my iPhone. (although I might have deleted some on macOS).


hi there,

thanks for ur reply. it throws some light on the subject , however, I think that Mac OS Message syncs all the content (iMessage and SMS) , only the chronology is a problem. (I mean no messages are missing on macOS Messages)

I've attached iOS as well as MacOS screen shots of the same conversation.

the latest content has been marked in red. The blue mark indicates SMS messages dating few days back.

As you can see, iOS gets it all right, and what you see at the bottom of the screen shot are the latest messages (you don't even see the green SMSs, as they are from a couple of days before.

On the other hand, with macOS Messages you first get the iMessage section (you can see it at the top, and if I'd scroll up there's only iMessage content). What you see at the top is exactly the latest message (the one at the bottom on iOS screen shot).

Then there's something like a separate section for sms messages, which keeps appearing at the bottom, despite these messages being older then the iMessages content.

And this is really confusing, to say the least, since I'd expect messages to be put chronologically, (the latest at the bottom) regardless they're sms or iMessages. (and somehow it is never a problem with iOS).


Best,

eveafterdark

Feb 27, 2017 12:56 PM in response to eveafterdark

Hi,


That does look very odd on that Mac version of the same conversation.


Could you mouse over some of the SMS items and check the tooltip time shows the same as the Message sent time ?

User uploaded file

This happens to be be a conversation that changed from iMessages to using an Apple ID over AIM

So the center info text tell you that along with the time.

The first incoming message's tooltip confirms that time.


With SMS the items are time stamped like iMessages are. However it does not mean the info from the carrier is correct. (this is a bit speculative as it appears in orders on the iPhone and it is the iPhone that passes on the info)

In this picture I seem to have "lost" 15 minutes or so between sending an iMessages in error and changing to SMS.

User uploaded file


I would also check the Date and Time in the settings (General) on the iPhone.



User uploaded file

8:56 pm Monday; February 27, 2017


 iMac 2.5Ghz i5 2011 (Sierra)
 G4/1GhzDual MDD (Leopard 10.5.8)
 MacBookPro 2Gb (Snow Leopard 10.6.8)
 Mac OS X (10.6.8),
 iPhone 6 iOS 10.x and an iPad (2)

Feb 26, 2017 8:46 AM in response to eveafterdark

I would assume something is interfering with the correct behavior because it doesn't normally group them separately. Mine are all mixed together and sorted by time.


If I set it to manually, move things around, then change back to by Time, everything goes in chronological order.


Have you tried restarting? Weird things like that can sometimes clear up after restarting (or possibly just logging out and back in).

Feb 26, 2017 9:08 AM in response to Barney-15E

thanks for your reply.

If ur speaking about the left panel of the Messages window (where separate conversations are listed) then this thing works ok. (and responds to "by date" sorting).

I meant the order of the messages (the bubbles with replies) within a given conversation.

on iOS they're in chronological order which is basically what I'd expected. Regardless weather a specific reply has been sent via iMessage or by SMS.

with Messages on Sierra it's not that way: instead of keeping chronological order, I have 2 sections: one containing messages sent with iMessage service and the other one sent via cell provider service (SMS).

And when I get to the bottom of a conversation (the bottom bubble should be the latest reply - like in iOS) I see SMS messages from like 2 weeks ago.

And since it does not matter to me which service was used to send a message but the chronology, I can't really figure out why it works like that on Sierra. And can't really find a setting to change the behaviour to ios' like.


best,

eveafterdark

May 22, 2017 10:15 PM in response to eveafterdark

Latent contribution in case anybody's still interested:


First, the Messages app doesn’t “group” messages by SMS versus iMessage mode. It may look that way sometimes but what it’s actually doing is inserting a modal heading above some messages but only when the mode has changed from that of the previous one. It doesn’t shuffle them around according to mode.


Second, Messages app doesn’t sync, per se, between devices. I don’t know what Apple calls it but they don’t call it “syncing” (not officially, anyway.) I think of it as “distribution.” There is no syncing between devices, e.g., as to what’s been deleted or the displayed order et c.


Third, the Messages app on any given device displays received messages in the order that they actually come in to the device (“device chronology.”) This isn’t always going to accord the de facto meta-data chronology and it isn’t always going to be the same between devices. I’ve watched in real time as messages come in and, so far, I just haven’t seen any come in to the iPhone out of de facto meta-data chronology but have seen it happen occasionally on the Mac. If any ever did actually come into the iPhone out of de facto chronology, I don’t know if it would eventually re-order them but I don’t think so; it sure doesn’t on the Mac.


There’s a lot of IP stuff going on behind the scenes to distribute these messages to multiple devices, with different packets and queuing for each device. The iPhone is the main device and Messages usage on other devices is adjunctive.


I believe the iMessage servers are geared to prioritize traffic for all the iPhones out there in the world with the next level of priority going to cellular-enabled iPads. For adjunct Messages devices, it’s probably “we’ll get around to it whenever.” The nature of SMS is such that they usually, if not always, relay to/from applicable SMS devices with little delay. (For iPhone users with adjunct Messages device(s), SMS messages have to go through the iPhone with “Text Message Forwarding” enabled.)


The bottom line is that messages should actually relay to/from the iPhone with very minimal delay compared to the adjunct Messages devices. I don’t know why the Messages app doesn’t even have an option to re-order messages according to the de facto meta-data chronology but I think it may be in accordance with some kind of agreed-upon industrial standards for SMS messaging. Sans any sort order options, I really do prefer “what I see on this device is what I got and how I got it on this device.” And I definitely don’t want any currently available messages to be delayed only because a previous one is hung up somewhere along the line when I’m working away on my Mac upstairs and my iPhone downstairs charging or whatever.


A lot of speculation there and I realize that I may be over-rationalizing!

May 28, 2017 10:46 PM in response to eveafterdark

Correction: My previous posting is erroneous. I profusely apologize to you and everyone who read it.


I recently exchanged multiple iMessages, chat style, via my iPhone, with one of my contacts. Several iMessages sent and received in short order. Several hours later, I opened the Messages app on the Mac (which had been asleep.) After several seconds, I saw the iMessages I had sent earlier from the iPhone pour in. But not the ones I had received! After a minute or two, the ones I had received poured in, interleaved with the ones I had sent with all ending up in proper actual chronological order. So the Messages app on the Mac does have the ability to properly sort according to actual chronological order even when messages don’t actually come into it that way. Yet it clearly doesn’t always do so. Furthermore, although it tends to be less often and less extreme and, thus, less noticeable, the same is true for Messages on the iPhone!


I did a tedious, detailed audit of this one long, busy conversation going back a few months and have discovered myriad, manifold discrepancies!


Examples:


The most obvious being on the Mac. Some messages, iMessage as well as SMS-fall-back, being way out of actual chronological order on the Mac despite the meta-data date/time being almost if not exactly right on. Some of these are out of order by as much as 10 or 11 hours. Some groups of messages have a LOT of chronologous scatter!


Less obvious chronology scatter on the iPhone. Some messages out of actual chronological order on the iPhone but only by a few minutes. Some of these are out of order the same way on both the iPhone as well as the Mac. Some are out of order more extremely on the Mac than the iPhone. Some are out of order just on the iPhone. But none are out of order on the iPhone by more than a few minutes. This includes some rare instances of SMS-fall-back as well as pure iMessages.


A few instances of messages that appear as iMessage on the Mac versus SMS-fall-back on the iPhone as well as vice versa.


Here’s a good one: A received message appearing on the Mac once as iMessage and again as SMS-fall-back with meta-data time 5 minutes later. It appears only once on the iPhone, that being iMessage but with meta-data time matching the later SMS-fall-back one on the Mac. Also, the SMS-fall-back message on the Mac is out of actual chronological order by about 2 and a half hours.


Finally, some iMessages that are otherwise identical between devices, actually have a different meta-data time between devices! Some by as much as 5 minutes, that I’ve seen, which isn’t much. Obviously this, although it’s not the only thing, does have a bearing on sort order discrepancies. Although not enough that I would have normally noticed.


Bottom line: Something’s not completely baked. Myriad and manifold discrepancies abound! As far as apparent sort order versus de facto meta-data time, for any given message, chronologous disorder can occur on either device but not the other or the same way or different ways on both! Sometimes it involves SMS-fall-back, sometimes not. In my case, such disorder on the iPhone is always so small I wouldn’t normally notice it. On the Mac it can be huge (several hours or more) with manifold chronologous scatter within any short-order group of messages!


But I still love it despite these minor, occasional issues. I appreciate the ability to quasi-synchronize messages on multiple devices via the Messages app.

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