Keyboard shorting badly and Can it be washed at all???

Hi folks, this may sound weird and bad on my part, but at least it may help others even if none of you can help me:

Couple of months ago, about Oct 2006, my four-year-old DVI 800MHz PowerBook's built-in keyboard started to misbehave: the Num Lock key would engage by itself and a few random numbers and chars would pop up each time I pressed a key (any key). Often the whole screen would also shrink and then expand as if the F11 key was pressed a couple of times in a roll. So I would have to stop typing, wait for a few seconds, then disengage the Num Lock key. I might had to cycle it three times, and sometimes hitting the Delete key also helped to stop the hemorrhage. This whole scenario would repeat about every five to ten minutes when I was typing.

Here's the "bad" part. Many years ago, I worked at a large state-of-the-art computing center. To my amazement the whole computer room, as large as a stadium, was exclusively protected by water sprinklers for fire suppression. I asked and was expertly told that Halon, the best chemical suppression at the time, would react with circuitry and render computers useless once exposed; while on the other hand, water was harmless once completely dried.

So remembering this lesson and thinking that a plastic keyboard would hardly qualify as fine and sensitive circuitry, I proceeded to clean the jittery keyboard with 409 cleaning solution and water since I wondered if some slight stain from old food crumbs might had caused a hardened short. Well, days later after the keyboard was completely dry it exhibited two new problems: the number 4 key is completely dead, and several times now it would send key presses to the computer in rapid fire, once resulting in the renaming of a dozen files in the active file folder on my desktop. So I thought the original short was getting worse, and the dead 4 key was just my bad luck. I went to eBay and bought a used but functioning keyboard for $1.25 plus $9 shipping, after much searching and bidding.

The $1.25 keyboard worked upon arrival, but no way in **** I would use it as is. See, it is completely filled with loose hair and fibers under the keys, and the back was dusty too. God knows where this keyboard had been. Well, after 409, water, an alcohol bath, a thorough drying with a hair dryer, and a full swap with my original key caps, the keyboard is now sterile and civilized, but half the keys don’t work any more. Here I am, feeling a bit silly, but nonetheless hoping one of you folks, especially “eww”, would enlighten me on why this keyboard is deathly afraid of water; are the circuitry water soluble? Much appreciated!!!

BTW, I just bought another off eBay, and hope this one is cleaner, a lot cleaner. Thanks again.



PowerBook Ti DVI G4 800MHz Mac OS X (10.4.8)

Posted on Dec 28, 2006 8:24 PM

Reply
5 replies

Jan 1, 2007 10:00 AM in response to morar2001

Just to clarify: no, I'm not employed by Apple. I'm just another Mac user volunteering my time, as are virtually all the other people you'll find posting in the Discussions. On the rare occasions when an Apple employee does post, there will be a little Apple logo beneath his or her name, as in Damon M.'s post here.

I was very surprised when Damon responded to that post. I've probably seen fewer than two dozen posts from Apple employees, aside from public announcements by the forum moderators and hosts, in the more than six years I've been frequenting the Discussions.

Dec 28, 2006 9:01 PM in response to morar2001

Hi, morar2001, and welcome to Apple Discussions. I doubt very much (as I'm sure you do) that the keyboard contains any water-soluble components. But I also doubt that after a good dousing, it could possibly take less than a week or two for all the tiny little crannies and crevices in a Tibook keyboard to be completely free of water. I wouldn't hesitate to bathe a desktop keyboard thoroughly in warm distilled water, but I certainly wouldn't use a detergent on it (they tend to be corrosive and/or leave residues), and I certainly wouldn't reconnect it to a computer until it had sat for a minimum of 24-48 hours in front of a fan blowing room-temperature air over it. A Powerbook keyboard doesn't offer as many avenues for air circulation into the many tiny spaces inside it as a desktop keyboard does, nor is it as easy to remove all the keycaps and clean underneath them.

My inclination, in your shoes, would be to leave the washing to the owners of desktop computers and buy the Tibook a clean new (or used) keyboard. I'd be willing to spend quite a bit more than $1.25 for it, if necessary, since a $1.25 keyboard that doesn't work isn't much of a bargain.

Dec 30, 2006 9:53 PM in response to eww

Thank you eww, there's good news, ===,

After two more days of letting the replacement, washed, detergented, alcohol-soaked keyboard dry by itself, though I have fiddled with it many times, blowing on it, prying the plastics around the only remaining dead key, the "=" key, then suddenly the = key came back earlier this evening; in fact it came back in a big way, where once I plugged the keyboard back in, it fired off a few dozen =s into the active TextEdit app. I am typing on it now, and so far seems to be fully functioning and behaving.

This means a few things:
1. Washing the keyboard was OKAY.

2. It takes days, minimum, for the keyboard to dry, so be patient.

3. My original keyboard had an internal problem, that has caused the NumLock key problem before I washed it and the rapid fire problem afterwards. Another symptom now is that it often keeps the computer awake, meaning it is sending some non-key-stroke signals to the mother board, thereby not allowing it to sleep. I have seen the same problem reported by others in this forum; humm, Jobs, pay attention and forget the stock options. BTW, the dead "4" key may now be a red herring, although it's very stubbon and has not recovered yet.

So, thanks again, and I hope that's really the end of my venture with a ghostly keyboard for several months. Too bad that the Apple reliability was good enough to evade the 3-year extended warranty for which I paid dearly, but still bad enough that it happened at all.

Happy New Year everyone!!!


PowerBook Ti DVI G4 800MHz Mac OS X (10.4.8)

Dec 31, 2006 7:22 AM in response to morar2001

...Too bad that the Apple reliability was good enough to evade the 3-year extended warranty for which I paid dearly, but still bad enough that it happened at all.


I'm not sure "the Apple reliability" can be expected to keep your computer running indefinitely if you eat over it, sprinkling it with debris and allowing its keyboard to get so grungy that it has to be cleaned, or you're even tempted to clean it, with 409 and alcohol. For someone in the habit of dining off his Powerbook, a keyboard "skin" might be a good investment.

I'm glad to hear that after it got a bit drier, at least one of your keyboards started working properly, or mostly so. It's possible that there are still traces of water in it, causing the failure-to-sleep problem.

Dec 31, 2006 9:30 PM in response to eww

eww, I do and did thank you for your help on this matter, but one word of clarification, I did not "eat over" my original keyboard or any of the things you had assumed.

Quite on the contrary, my original keyboard was extremely clean, especially after I'd seen the cheap one I bought off eBay. I might had three to five pieces of thin and short hair in mine after four years of daily use. I did notice a small line of some type of dried stain, which I could not figure out how it was caused. The only reason I washed it originally was that I had run out of ideas on what was causing the NumLock key problem. I suspected that it "must" had some foreign object in it causing some type of short. So i washed it as my last resort. In contrast, I had to wash the super dirty eBay keyboard because there's no way I would put that piece of crap in my clean and babied PowerBook -- I knew washing it might destroy it but I had to do it.

Yes it might have been unrealistic for me to expect or hope to use this PowerBook for more than four years. But like any item of great personal fondness and desire, you think and want it to last forever, much like an original Mustang or a 70 year old Steinway, or my PowerBook 160 from 1993 which still boots. Well, the rest of this PowerBook G4 Ti is still ticking strong, no problems at all (that I care to admit - missing feet, flaked off paint, and loosened glued bottom casing) after probably 10,000 hours of faithful service, so I am not complaining much at all.

You don't work at Apple, do you? And, as i said, the original keyboard's failure-to-sleep or random rapid firings are definitely not due to any foreign objects; I would bet handsomely that it's due to some circuitry problem. I would gladly donate it to Apple for testing, if you are interested, assuming you work there.

Just to show you that I am still sane and loyal towards Apple Reliability, next to this PowerBook I am typing on right now is a 15 day old MacBook Pro 2.16 GHz Core 2 Duo that I bought from the local Apple Store. Upon close inspection, I did see that Apple engineers had changed the detail designs and thus fixed some of the problems I reported above. But I am always frutal and I bought the new MacBook Pro at 10% discount for being an open-box item, the only returned Core 2 they had for weeks if not ever.

Now that I have defended my honor and reputation as a real and devoted Mac User, you please do have a great New Year!!!!

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Keyboard shorting badly and Can it be washed at all???

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