Tiny system font size disaster

Help, my system font has become tiny and is far too small for my work. I can now only work properly with a large external monitor attached. (I'm running El Capitan on 15” non-retina mid 2012 MacBook Pro).


This problem started yesterday. I had a very minor problem in that Pages does not always start the first time. Somebody recommended checking whether there were damaged fonts in Font Book. I did that and found many cases where common fonts were shown as being duplicated, which the system allowed me to correct automatically.


I don’t know what was actually done automatically and cannot find anything in the trash, but since doing this the system font has become tiny.


I have compared the following 3 locations on the hard drive with the same locations on my external boot drive. (I clone my entire drive weekly using SuperDuper to an external drive for emergencies). The number of font files is identical in each case.


~/Library/Fonts/

/Library/Fonts/

/System/Library/Fonts/


How can I get my system font size back again please or reverse the corrections which the OS made to Font Book?

Might it be sufficient to replace the newly written fontbook.plist?

Does anybody know a solution please? This is a disaster for me and a huge set back if it cannot be solved. Thanks!

MacBook Pro, OS X El Capitan (10.11.6), 16 GB RAM

Posted on May 27, 2017 1:32 AM

Reply
56 replies

May 29, 2017 12:57 PM in response to tygb

A lot said, but little meaning as a response to me. All you're proving is that you can read the contents of a link. Is your point this line?

You can’t remove or disable system fonts.

From within Font Book, no. It won't let you. Nor manually from the desktop if System Integrity Protection is enabled. That doesn't mean it's impossible. None of the following are in my /System/Library/Fonts/ folder. I removed them.


Apple Braille Outline 6 Dot.ttf

Apple Braille Outline 8 Dot.ttf

Apple Braille Pinpoint 6 Dot.ttf

Apple Braille Pinpoint 8 Dot.ttf

Apple Symbols.ttc

AppleSDGothicNeo.ttc

AquaKana.ttc

Avenir Next Condensed.ttc

Avenir Next.ttc

GeezaPro.ttc

Hiragino Sans GB W3.ttc

Hiragino Sans GB W6.ttc

Kohinoor.ttc

KohinoorBangla.ttc

KohinoorTelugu.ttc

MarkerFelt.ttc

Noteworthy.ttc

Optima.ttc

Palatino.ttc

STHeiti Light.ttc

STHeiti Medium.ttc

STHeiti Thin.ttc

STHeiti UltraLight.ttc

Thonburi.ttc

ヒラギノ明朝 ProN W3.ttc

ヒラギノ明朝 ProN W6.ttc

ヒラギノ角ゴシック W0.ttc

ヒラギノ角ゴシック W1.ttc

ヒラギノ角ゴシック W2.ttc

ヒラギノ角ゴシック W3.ttc

ヒラギノ角ゴシック W4.ttc

ヒラギノ角ゴシック W5.ttc

ヒラギノ角ゴシック W6.ttc

ヒラギノ角ゴシック W7.ttc

ヒラギノ角ゴシック W8.ttc

ヒラギノ角ゴシック W9.ttc

May 29, 2017 1:27 PM in response to tygb

Are you trying to disable SIP by terminal command and trying to delete the fonts and that is not recommended.

No, not trying. I'm succeeding. And quite intentionally. "Recommended" isn't the same as "your computer will explode if you remove a font the OS installs".


Apparently, you've never worked in prepress, where the goal (for most such users) is to keep all unnecessary fonts off of your computers at all times. You will have far fewer font conflict issues with the fonts customers send you to use with their projects.


That basic premise is the entire point of my article. You might want to give it a read.


Font Management in macOS and OS X


I may receive some form of compensation, financial or otherwise, from my recommendation or link.

May 30, 2017 4:03 PM in response to ontravel

Tahoma is an OS supplied font. Actually, it's a Microsoft font supplied to Apple for use in the OS. Office for Mac will also install this font set.


Tahoma is fine on my end, so something about your copies are damaged enough that the OS thinks the regular and negreta (bold) versions are conflicting with each other. Pull clean copies from a backup and replace both Tahoma.ttf and Tahoma Bold.ttf in the /Library/Fonts/ folder. You can also use Pacifist to extract clean copies from the El Capitan .dmg installer.


MT Extra is a font installed by MS Office for Mac. Replace that one also with a clean copy.

Jun 1, 2017 3:12 AM in response to Kurt Lang

Thanks, Kurt. I've downloaded Pacifist but cannot find El Capitan .dmg installer and strangely cannot download it from the Mac Store either. I have both Lion and Mountain Lion on USB drives. Can I use Pacifist to extract the needed fonts form either of those or do you think that the fonts have changed meanwhile? Otherwise I will need to visit my supplier and get El Cap on a drive.

Jun 2, 2017 11:32 AM in response to ontravel

Kurt, do you suggest that I just trash MT Extra from within the FontBook app?

Unless it's a font you need for its special characters, just trash it.

Normal (flagged as duplicate) /library/fonts/tahoma.ttf

Regular /users/username/library/fonts/tahoma (without extension)

Bold /users/username/library/fonts/tahoma (without extension)

Negreta (flagged as duplicate) /library/fonts/tahoma bold.ttf

Aha! There's the cause of the duplicate flags in Font Book. The two without an extension are much older OS 9 style TrueType fonts. They're conflicting not only with the newer .ttf OpenType versions, but with each other. Delete those two older versions so only the two .ttf versions remain.

Jun 3, 2017 8:29 AM in response to ontravel

TypeBook flags the older versions without extensions as being the good ones. If I click through to individually manually correct these files, it shows me the .ttf version in Finder.

It doesn't have anything to do with which ones are "good". Unix defines the order of Fonts folder importance as follows:


~/Library/Fonts/ (the active user account)

/Library/Fonts/

/Network/Library/Fonts/

/System/Library/Fonts/

/System Folder/Fonts/ (the OS 9 Fonts folder)


You would think the System folder's fonts would get top billing, but they don't. Which seems very backwards to me, but that's the way it is. It's also how the Lucida Grande hack works. Because the altered fonts are placed in your user account, they are used ahead of the real San Francisco fonts, despite both being active. This folder weight order is the only reason Font Book is marking the older versions green, and the newer versions as a problem.


Both versions of Tahoma were created by Microsoft. Both have the same internal names. The way to get it right is to remove those much older versions from the drive. They're not only really old, but the two copies that have no extension are identical to each other. A legacy Mac TrueType font is a suitcase. They both contain Tahoma and Tahoma Bold. The .ttc versions are separated as individual fonts.

It appears from this (and probably also applicable to the remaining 43 problems) that the OS does not properly remove fonts by trashing the apps which installed them.

How is what another app installs Apple's fault? All the way up to Office for Mac 2011, MS was still installing a bunch of OS 9 legacy TrueType font files (62 of them). Not that it's a terrible thing to do that since you can still use them, but a handful conflict with the greatly newer .ttf and .ttc versions installed by they OS. That's simply sloppy programming by MS to insist on continually installing fonts they should darn well know will conflict with the newer OS installed versions that already exist. Anytime a user installs Office 2008 or 2011, it will install these ancient conflicting fonts:


Andale Mono

Arial Black

Arial Narrow

Arial Rounded Bold

Comic Sans MS

Georgia

Impact

Tahoma

Trebuchet MS


Notice Tahoma is one of them. All of these older versions without an extension should be deleted from the drive immediately after installing Office 2011 or older since they will all conflict with the newer .ttf and .ttc versions.

Jun 5, 2017 6:42 AM in response to Kurt Lang

Thanks, Kurt. Now progressing slowly as I have been fighting with Internet outages.


"How is what another app installs Apple's fault?"

Perhaps I was thinking that the OS tracks what has been installed and so knows what to uninstall.


I've deleted all those on your list and also the following which had duplicates:

Ariel

Brush Script MT

Gill Sans Ultra Bold

Times New Roman

Verdana

Wingdings 2

Wingdings 3


Furthermore FontBook shows these conflicts:

Fang Song + also Song, but does not show them with conflicts in the other window which allows deletions. Maybe I don't need them anyway.

Palatino, Savoye LET Fonts and Snell Roundhand

These are all switched off and when I try to delete them it wants a password and says they are system fonts.


Furthermore, I put Tahoma back because the "correct" .ttf font was displaying much thinner than the "wrong" old version in my critical app and I prefer the appearance.


There is still time to go back as I have a brand new boot clone.

Jun 11, 2017 9:56 AM in response to ontravel

Furthermore, I put Tahoma back because the "correct" .ttf font was displaying much thinner than the "wrong" old version in my critical app and I prefer the appearance.

The most likely reason it's displaying funny is because the font cache data is out of whack from having conflicting fonts active.


Remove the old fonts again. Make sure the .ttf versions of Tahoma are in the /Library/Fonts/ folder.


Close all running applications. From an administrator account, open the Terminal app and enter the following command (or copy/paste it from here):


sudo atsutil databases -remove


Enter your administrator password when prompted.


This removes all font cache files maintained by macOS and OS X. Both for the system and the active user account. After running the command, close Terminal and immediately restart your Mac.

Jun 11, 2017 7:40 AM in response to Kurt Lang

Kurt Lang wrote:

"The most likely reason it's displaying funny is because the font cache data is out of whack from having conflicting fonts active."


I'm not sure whether it is displaying 'funny' or maybe even correctly. Anyway, the Tahoma versions 1.50 in both regular and bold display better than the Tahoma.ttf versions 5.01.1x, so after having carefully followed your instructions to delete the font cache, I have replaced the old versions again and disabled the ttf fonts.


I have no typographical ambitions and if I'm using the expression correctly, in my critical app the font might be termed a 'system' font. The old versions are simply much easier to read.


I have also disabled (rather than deleting) the non ttf files from the remaining 6-8 fonts which are flagged with minor problems in FontBook after validation.


Since cleaning up the first batch a week ago (and deleting a broken font) my system fan has had much less use :-)


Kurt, provided you have nothing against my leaving the wrong Tahoma font and the disabled duplicates mentioned above, then I will finish that stage of my housekeeping. Any warnings you have will be heeded and thanks again for all the help.

Jun 11, 2017 9:56 AM in response to ontravel

Up to you which ones you want to use. Just as long as only one set of Tahoma is active. Since you prefer the older version, just keep the .ttf versions disabled. Also, delete one or the other of the old Tahoma fonts. They are literally identical. There's nothing to be gained by disabling one of them and saving the other.


As far as appearance, it is possible for them to be different. Both fonts are the same as far as how they're built. That is, all of the shapes are vector outlines. What would be different, due to large difference in their creation dates would be that MS has done a lot of tweaking to the hinting. And also possibly tweaking of the vector shapes themselves. There are other possible ways for the display to be affected.


Eventually, these old fonts and similar old models (like Type 1 Postscript) will be dead. All typography is being built around, and pushed towards Unicode. These old font structures have no Unicode support at all. They were designed and built before Unicode even existed. So I wouldn't be surprised that at some point in the near future, non-Unicode fonts will simply be disallowed and the OS will refuse to use them.

Jun 11, 2017 9:56 AM in response to Kurt Lang

Kurt Lang wrote:

" Also, delete one or the other of the old Tahoma fonts. They are literally identical." There's nothing to be gained by disabling one of them and saving the other.


Ah, what a valuable tip! None of the ttf fonts was suitable, even individually. I settled on the old bold font as it gave the same result as bold with regular. 🙂


Kurt Lang wrote:

"So I wouldn't be surprised that at some point in the near future, non-Unicode fonts will simply be disallowed and the OS will refuse to use them."


I will cross that bridge later. Maybe my app developer will have changed things by then anyway.


This have been a very informative discussion. Who would have imagined that font management can be SO VITAL in the running and stability of a Mac!!!


So my font problem appears to be solved. I hope that nobody closes this thread as I wish to proceed with the pointers mentioned by other posters on cleaning up the machine. This was an important first step. Thanks again! 🙂

Jun 11, 2017 3:42 PM in response to ontravel

Generally, topics remain open even if the person who started it marks a post "Solved". Anyone can still add to it at a later date. It's pretty rare that the hosts will lock a topic. And that's normally because people are incessantly arguing minutiae points after the question has already been resolved. So, rather than deleting the topic, they want to leave it as it does have valuable information in it for others looking to answer the same question, but want to stop the arguments.

This thread has been closed by the system or the community team. You may vote for any posts you find helpful, or search the Community for additional answers.

Tiny system font size disaster

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