Level 1

21 points

FINALLY decided to come here for help with my 2 airport extremes

so its been years since I have my roaming network set up. It always ran perfect up until about 2 weeks ago. but there were a few things that I never understood, and endless calls to apple still couldn't figure it out. Ill get to my question in a minute, but first let me tell you my connections and setup:

directly from my modem (ONT supplied by Verizon, BUT not the modem/router combo, I know all the issues with that, I have my house wired specifically so I can use my own router with the big ONT outside my house supplied by Verizon, so this is not at all what I'm asking about) so:

on my first floor I have an Ethernet from Modem to AirPort Extremes Wan Port. (latest extreme with latest firmware).

from 1st floor extreme I have ethernet (hardwired) to a second extreme on my second floor. (LAN to WAN). That second floor Extreme is OFF(bridge mode) set to create a network with the same name and password as the first. so in essence, if using a high tech app or something, you would see 2- 2.4 and 2-5ghz networks which I have named EXTREME and EXTREME 5.

dont know if it matters, but let me tell you my complete set up if I want a correct answer..... also coming out of my main router-- I have an ethernet to a gigabyte switch. ( I have a smart home, Homekit, so have over 50-60 wireless/wired devices).

so besides my issue with having a horrible connection over the last couple weeks, ( last few years have always gotten my provisioned speeds of over 80 download and 80 upload), my question is, ......... and its multi parts---- Shouldn't my entire network shut down when main router is either, restarted, unplugged, disconnected, etc.???? it doesn't. Whenever I restart or shut my main router, My secondary router light is still green, still active, and still giving off a signal in which the entire house still has internet. how and why is that?

and why out of nowhere has my entire network gone to ****? I can't see anything that could be causing so much noise and interference, I've always had good signal checking within Macs wifi options. Now I have crazy interference. I checked all other networks around me, and there are no new ones, so can't figure it out.

THANKS TO ALL WHO STOPPED BY AND TOOK THE TIME TO READ.

I just realized something for the first time in 6 years...... Yes when I disconnect primary router, the second one does not shut off, but disconnecting the second router ( the one in bridge mode) DOES disconnect the primary router. I AM SURE MY CONNECTIONS ARE CORRECT,,, only thing I can think is because Im plugged from main router LAN to second router WAN,,,, should I maybe be in the second LAN instead of WAN if its in bridge mode????

Airport Extreme 802.11ac, null

Posted on Jun 6, 2017 5:25 PM

43 replies

JuSTBLeSSeD Author

Level 1

21 points

Jun 7, 2017 3:25 PM in response to LaPastenague

I would like to really just start from scratch if its possible for you to explain the set up you think I should have.let just call my main router, the one plugged into the modem '1' and upstairs bridged we'll call '2'.

So im starting from the modem.....

Modem to '1' with ethernet into Wan port. this will be main router set up with mode as DHCP and NAT.

ill have 1 reservation for my DVR, enable NAT-PMP, No file sharing and access control not enabled.wifi channels on auto, IPv6 auto, and IMPG snooping ON.

then ethernet from LAN from '1' going into WAN on 2 set up as off bridge mode.

is this correct?

Jun 7, 2017 3:35 PM in response to JuSTBLeSSeD

is this correct?

Yes.. but I would tend to use IPv6 link-local only unless your ISP is now using IPv6.

Auto seems to choose wrong setting or can flop around.. the less stuff you leave to chance the more stable the system is.

Auto is correct if you are now running IPv6 internet.

One other thing.. make the IP of the second Extreme static. You can do it via DHCP reservation. Or set statically. Having IP address of Extreme changing constantly which it will do under normal circumstances results in poor reliability of the network.

Otherwise everything else is fine.

JuSTBLeSSeD Author

Level 1

21 points

Jun 8, 2017 5:46 AM in response to LaPastenague

Hey. Ok, so everything was reset and started over, not sure yet the outcome, but one thing I did notice was the my computer connected to the 2.4 network. I since removed it so my computer would only connect to 5, but wanted to let you know that since selecting auto channel, the 5GHz is fine, however, the 2.4 will never auto go to the same 2 channels. they always use different channels for each airport. whether thats causing the interference currently or not, one 2.4 noise is -92. can't get much worse than that. I'm gonna do a quick scan right now......

ok well now its 0, but assuming its because I removed the 2.4 from this computer and its no longer connecting to it.

so if they continue to choose different channels, should I chose the 2.4 myself?

THANKS

Jun 10, 2017 7:41 AM in response to racerboy999

If you don't set up separate 5ghz/2.4ghz networks, you're leaving it up to the devices which band they'll connect to. Apple devices always try to connect to the higher band when available, but not all devices use this logic)

Not quite correct.

Apple devices will connect to the strongest signal. If the device is close to the AirPort router, then it will likely connect to the higher 5 GHz band.....assuming the device is capable of doing so......since the signal strength will be about the same from the 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz bands.

In other words, if the signal strength of the 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz bands is about the same, then the device will normally connect to the higher 5 GHZ band as a matter of preference.

But, if the device is a few rooms way from the AirPort router, then it will almost always connect to the 2.4 GHz band......since 2.4 GHz signals are stronger than 5 GHz signals.

Bottom line......Apple devices are setup to connect to the strongest signal......which may not necessarily be the fastest signal. It all depends on the location of the wireless device in relation to the wireless router.

JuSTBLeSSeD Author

Level 1

21 points

Jun 12, 2017 7:01 AM in response to LaPastenague

Ok well now what's going on is something I never expected OR ever experienced. Last night, my main airport started making some crazy sounds and pretty loud too. I went into the iOS utility app and it was saying that my airport may be over heating. I felt it and it didn't really feel all that warm. I unplugged it for about a half hour then tried plugging it back in and the same thing started happening. It was late at night so I just reset both airports to factory and brought the one from upstairs to downstairs and set that as the main router. I then continued to try to use the router that was making noise as my secondary router ( in bridge mode) but it continued to make the noise. I finished configuring it with the noise going on, and then just unplugged it for the night. I didn't try to plug it in yet as I had an early appointment today.

But have you ever experienced anything like this before?

And something completely off topic but figured I'd throw it out there. ...... without getting into detail because it's an extremely long detailed story,,, but, is it possible for the airport to be hacked, or possible for someone to be outside with like a 'scrambler' or something that would be able to affect it?

THANKS

Jun 12, 2017 7:58 AM in response to JuSTBLeSSeD

If your "main" AirPort is the current tall or tower shaped version of the Airport Extreme or AirPort Time Capsule, the noise is almost certainly coming from an internal fan that is clogged with dust, or the fan motor bearings are failing.

Since the cooling efficiency of the fan is compromised, this is causing the power supply electronics to run at a higher than normal temperature.

If the AirPort is still covered by warranty, ask Apple to replace the defective AirPort. If the AirPort is out of normal warranty, but you do have AppleCare in effect on one of your Macs, the AirPort might be covered under the AppleCare umbrella. Ask Apple to replace the defective AirPort.

As far as the AirPort being hacked, that is possible if a hacker knows how to get on your network and the hacker also knows or guesses the Base Station device password. But even in the unlikely event that this has occurred, the operating temperature of the AirPort would not be affected.

If the AirPort is not covered by AppleCare, about all that you can do at this point is have a shop open up the AirPort Extreme and replace the cooling fan. If you are experienced with repairs on small electronic devices, you might be able to open up the AirPort yourself and clean out the fan or replace it as needed. The following article might provide a few tips on opening up the AirPort.

AirPort Extreme A1521 Teardown - iFixit

JuSTBLeSSeD Author

Level 1

21 points

Jun 12, 2017 10:53 AM in response to Bob Timmons

Thanks for the reply. Ok, so you believe it's overheating? Really? Just like that? One second it's working fine and out of nowhere it starts making these noises. **** this *****. It's def over a year old, as well as my mac I believe. And I don't think I purchased Apple care with my iMac. Do you think one of those 'Air in a can' sprays would get the dust out?

Jun 12, 2017 11:20 AM in response to JuSTBLeSSeD

Ok, so you believe it's overheating? Really?

You told us that AirPort Utility is indicating that the device is overheating. If AirPort Utility says it is overheating, it likely is.

One second it's working fine and out of nowhere it starts making these noises.

I've had two AirPorts that did the same thing....one at about 18 months and the other at 20-22. In both cases, things were working fine up to the minute before the problems began.

Do you think one of those 'Air in a can' sprays would get the dust out?

Possibly, but you will have to open up the device to get at the fan to blow out the dust. Keep in mind that I mentioned that worn motor bearings will also create noise. If that is the issue, then it can only be solved by replacing the fan.

Here's a source for a replacement fan...which is the same fan that a Time Capsule uses. You might be able to find other sources as well using a Google search. Good luck!

New Original Apple AirPort A1470 Time capsule Cooling Fan 12V MG60121V1-C01U-S9 | eBay

JuSTBLeSSeD Author

Level 1

21 points

Jun 12, 2017 11:32 AM in response to Bob Timmons

Thanks again for the reply. If this matters at all,,, I just plugged it in, after about 2-3 minutes it started making the noises again. I picked it up just to take a look at it, and realized when I turn it upside down the noise stops. Does that hold any meaning to you?

THANKS.

Jun 12, 2017 12:02 PM in response to JuSTBLeSSeD

The orientation change of the AirPort has changed the balance of the fan motor very slightly. You have worn motor bearings on the fan motor, indicating that the fan will need to be replaced.

You may....or may not....still see temperature notices in AirPort Utility. But, in any case, it is clear that the AirPort will need a new fan soon.

If you are a regular customer of an Apple Store near you.....I would ask Apple to replace the AirPort Extreme, showing them a record of the thousands of dollars that you have spent. Worth a try, anyway.

JuSTBLeSSeD Author

Level 1

21 points

Jun 14, 2017 4:52 PM in response to Bob Timmons

OK, well I plugged it back in and it seems to be not making noise anymore and working OK however, back to the original situation. My roaming network just seems to not be what it used to be. While I am on the 5 GHz channel everything looks fine, once I switch my Mac over to the 2.4 network I'm at noise at 95%. What would be another set up I can try rather than a hardwired Roaming network?

Jun 14, 2017 5:24 PM in response to JuSTBLeSSeD

I'm sorry, but a roaming network will far outperform the other type of extended network that you could set up.....one in which the AirPort routers connect using a wireless connection.

For starters, you will lose at least half of the potential speed on the entire network with wireless connections between the AirPorts.....and....there is a much greater chance of wireless interference degrading the network as well.

But, you may get another opinion from another user, so you might want to wait to see if anyone will recommend a network in which the AirPorts connect using wireless.

Regarding the 95% noise that you mention, it would help if you could post a screenshot of that, since it is not likely 95%, it is minus 95, or -95, which is a very low noise number.

Jun 16, 2017 10:58 PM in response to JuSTBLeSSeD

Bob has taken over but just a comment.. your two screenshots are identical.. I downloaded them and put them both together.. in both you are wirelessly connected to 2.4ghz and there is no differences at all. Did you post the wrong scan?

IMHO changes will definitely take place due to 5ghz in particular using beam forming. This is not instantaneous. I find the signal and speed will change significantly over a few minutes. In experimental testing you always need to be careful to wait until everything has settled down if there are large dynamic changes.. especially true in wireless.

JuSTBLeSSeD Author

Level 1

21 points

Jun 17, 2017 3:55 PM in response to LaPastenague

Thanks so much. One more thing, my secondary router started acting up again with the fan, do you think having the 2 routers could possible have made my network worse, with the 2 of each names? Maybe devices got confused? Wondering if sticking with one router would be better and if could handle all my devices.

Jun 17, 2017 5:41 PM in response to JuSTBLeSSeD

do you think having the 2 routers could possible have made my network worse, with the 2 of each names?

No.

One more thing, my secondary router started acting up again with the fan

It will continue to act up until you replace the fan or replace the AirPort router.

Maybe devices got confused?

Confused about what? Devices connect to the strongest WiFi signal by design.

Wondering if sticking with one router would be better and if could handle all my devices.

No one has a crystal ball that is good enough to predict how well another network might perform. The only way to know whether one router will do what you want is try it out.

This thread has been closed by the system or the community team. You may vote for any posts you find helpful, or search the Community for additional answers.

FINALLY decided to come here for help with my 2 airport extremes