Deleted Time Machine backups still displayed in TM GUI.

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Deleted Time Machine backups still displayed in TM GUI.

I'm running macOS Sierra 10.12.6. I use Time Machine with a Synology DS410 NAS connected over Ethernet. I have backups of my MacBook Pro going back about a year and half. Although I know Time Machine will automatically remove older backups as it needs space I decided to remove some of the older ones myself through the TM interface. I entered TM, scrolled to the oldest backup, clicked the "cog" icon, and selected "Delete Backup". I was prompted for my password and then after a few minutes TM seemed to complete and the backup was no longer displayed.

Here's where the issue starts. When I exit Time Machine and then go back in the old backup that I deleted is shown again in the list of available backups. If I click on it, TM goes to a Finder window, but it sits there saying "Waiting....". If I go to a command prompt and try "tmutil listbackups" the old backup is not shown. So it seems the backup has been deleted, but for some reason the TM GUI still thinks the backup exists.

Is there a way to refresh or update the TM GUI so it doesn't display backups that don't exist?

MacBook Pro (13-inch Mid 2012), macOS Sierra (10.12.6)

Posted on Aug 8, 2017 8:08 AM

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Answer 1

Tesserax

Level 10

148,919 points

Aug 8, 2017 11:28 AM in response to John Galt

AFP is a proprietary network protocol that Apple licenses to no one, and it has already been deprecated. Synology does not, nor have they ever used it in their products.

Ok, so I'm a bit confused on that second sentence. John, can you explain why in DSM when setting up a share for Time Machine, the option for "Mac file service" has to be enabled if Synology does not support the AFP protocol?

In addition, if I capture traffic between my macOS Sierra Mac mini and Synology DS416 NAS, there is plenty of AFP traffic going over the wire.

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Answer 2

edwilson97 Author

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5 points

Aug 8, 2017 2:43 PM in response to edwilson97

After some testing I found a way to clear up the TM GUI as it relates to my specific issue. If you remove the backup disk from the Time Machine configuration and then add it back in the display will no longer show the manually deleted backups.

It's actually a bit unnerving at first because when you first go back into Time Machine after reconnecting the backup drive you won't see any backups listed. After a few seconds though the display is repopulated with the backup information from the existing sparsebundle.

Cheers,
Eric

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Answer 3

John Galt

Level 10

141,688 points

Aug 8, 2017 9:45 AM in response to edwilson97

Non-Apple NAS devices are not supported and will never be reliable with Apple's Time Machine. To learn how to use Time Machine please read Use Time Machine to back up or restore your Mac - Apple Support.

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Answer 4

edwilson97 Author

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5 points

Aug 8, 2017 9:54 AM in response to John Galt

Hi John,

According to the following Apple support page networked volumes connected via AFP are supported. It doesn't state that they have to be Apple-specific network volumes.

Backup disks you can use with Time Machine - Apple Support

Cheers,

Eric

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Answer 5

John Galt

Level 10

141,688 points

Aug 8, 2017 10:01 AM in response to edwilson97

AFP is a proprietary network protocol that Apple licenses to no one, and it has already been deprecated. Synology does not, nor have they ever used it in their products.

You are welcome to contact Synology for support, but I happen to know they have already washed their hands of their problems with TM. The best they may offer is a full refund of your purchase price.

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Answer 6

edwilson97 Author

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5 points

Aug 8, 2017 10:42 AM in response to John Galt

John,

I appreciate your input and thanks for the clarification around AFP. While it is deprecated, it is still a functional part of the O/S. My Synology NAS is due to be replaced, but until then I'll keep searching for a solution as everything else related to Time Machine use with this NAS functions as expected.

Cheers,

Eric

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Answer 7

John Galt

Level 10

141,688 points

Aug 8, 2017 10:57 AM in response to edwilson97

While it is deprecated, it is still a functional part of the O/S.

The host device must be running AFP... and Synology does not.

As far as TM network host devices go, only Apple's Time Capsule, current production AEBS, or a Mac running macOS Server run AFP. Nothing else does.

Despite Apple's explicit and easily located instructions this question has continued to appear with disturbing regularity since Time Machine's introduction nearly a decade ago.

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Answer 8

edwilson97 Author

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5 points

Aug 8, 2017 11:30 AM in response to John Galt

John,

Where are you getting your information that Synology doesn't support AFP? I've been connecting to my Synology NAS for the better part of 8 years over AFP. There are several articles on Synology's site about how to enable the AFP service and setup a connection with a Mac for use with Time Machine.

Cheers,

Eric

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Answer 9

John Galt

Level 10

141,688 points

Aug 8, 2017 11:49 AM in response to edwilson97

Where are you getting your information that Synology doesn't support AFP?

From the knowledge that AFP is Apple's proprietary technology that they license to no one. They use an open source version of it (Netatalk) which has never been reliable with Time Machine.

If you want to use a non-Apple NAS for backups, use something other than Time Machine.

Please refer future questions to the NAS device manufacturer, or to Apple directly, who will refer you to the very same Support document I already provided to you, and might just charge you for their assistance. Single incident support is $29 US, unless they consider it a systems integration or network configuration question in which case their fee will be $695.

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Answer 10

Tesserax

Level 10

148,919 points

Aug 8, 2017 12:09 PM in response to John Galt

Fair enough, but that doesn't explain why the AFP protocol is still being used in a client/server relationship between my Mac and the NAS. (Although it may be possible that Wireshark is just interpreting it as AFP. ) Not trying to be argumentative, just trying to understand.

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Answer 11

edwilson97 Author

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5 points

Aug 8, 2017 1:41 PM in response to John Galt

This isn't a question for the NAS provider. As I stated previously TM backups, restores, and the tmutil itself all work and reflect the proper state of backups on the NAS. I can create backups. I can restore from backups. I can even delete backups. The only issue is the TM GUI doesn't properly reflect when a backup has been removed manually through the TM GUI.

I don't see this as a Synology issue. I understand that you do. You obviously have experience in this area, but we'll have to agree to disagree on where the fault lies.

Cheers,

Eric

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Answer 12

Tesserax

Level 10

148,919 points

Aug 8, 2017 8:27 AM in response to edwilson97

I suggest that you try the "Verify Backups" option in the Time Machine icon's pull-down menu. Note: You will have to hold down the <option> key before clicking on the icon in the menu bar.

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Answer 13

edwilson97 Author

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5 points

Aug 8, 2017 9:40 AM in response to Tesserax

Thank you for the response Tesserax. I have run a verify on the backups. No issues reported though. :-(

Cheers,

Eric

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Answer 14

John Galt

Level 10

141,688 points

Aug 8, 2017 12:04 PM in response to Tesserax

As a file transfer protocol "Mac File Service" has no definition. I suspect they are using that terminology to obscure the fact their devices do not use AFP.

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