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Question: MacOS On-Board / Pre-Installed Apps . . .

Hello,


I started out trying to tidy up and organize the Applications folder by creating subdirs for related apps, and moving each app into the appropriate subdir. Downloaded apps behave well and move when moved, or, at most, ask for administrator authorization. So why do some apps move without a peep while others ask for administrator authorization?


Next, MacOS’s on-board / pre-installed apps just won’t move from the Applications folder to a subdir within it. Yes, you can copy and then delete (which I don’t want to do) but you can’t move a MacOS app. So, first, why are MacOS apps ‘immovable objects’? And second, is there any way to (irresistably) force them to move within Finder? (I know I could do a sudo mv on the command-line.)


Thanks.

MacBook Air, macOS Sierra (10.12.6)

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Dec 16, 2017 8:49 PM in response to KDS-KDS In response to KDS-KDS

Apps put into the Utilities' folder require permission. None required for the Applications folder.


Default apps cannot be moved or deleted. They are protected by the SIP (System Integrity Protection.)


Generally speaking, it's not a good idea to organize in the Applications and Utilities' folders by creating sub-folders. Best to leave things alone.

Dec 16, 2017 8:49 PM

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Dec 19, 2017 2:35 PM in response to Niel In response to Niel

Thanks but I know about aliases (links in Unix, and links are what aliases are under the covers) but that won't solve the problem of the Apps dir getting into a state of disorganized clutter once you get 60-plus apps in it. Darn design is ridiculous.


Anyone at Apple listening?

Dec 19, 2017 2:35 PM

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Dec 19, 2017 2:46 PM in response to Kappy In response to Kappy

Hi, . . . I don't want or need to do anything to the Utilities folder.


It is one thing for pre-installed apps to be protected against being moved to the trash, rm'd, or whatever, but it is another thing to 'protect' them from being moved to a sub-folder within /Applications.(!)


I understand and agree that if one app uses another (like QuickTime) and expects to find it in /Applications but doesn't, we have a problem. But it doesn't need to be that way; there's surely a more sensible and elegant design – at least a quasi-taxonomical one – than dumping all the fish in the sea into '/Fishes'! ;-)


Again, anyone in Cupertino listening?

Dec 19, 2017 2:46 PM

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Dec 19, 2017 3:47 PM in response to KDS-KDS In response to KDS-KDS

Again, anyone in Cupertino listening?


Actually, no. These are user to user forums and Apple does not participate in general. If you want to get their attention, contact them directly or via feedback:


http://apple.com/feedback


As previously mentioned, unless you installed a third party app, it is best to leave the apps where the OS has decided to "park" them. If you start moving things around, the app store background process which scans your hard drive to see if any updates are needed won't be able to find them.

Dec 19, 2017 3:47 PM

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Jan 7, 2018 3:15 AM in response to babowa In response to babowa

Thanks for the reply.


I understand what you're saying. However, this design is like dumping this, that, and the other on your desktop (a Microsofty thing to do) which Mac apparently has been encouraging for some time now. Equally bad to dump everything in your home dir and then over-rely on Spotlight, smart folders, etc. Dumping stuff in your home or desktop is confusing and it's clutter, and the same applies for Applications. You can't find an oddly-named app when you need it but can't recollect its odd name. You have to go through all the apps in your Applications folder, which may number close to a hundred. But if you organize all apps properly in logically structured Applications subdirs, you'd have to scan only one subdir containing several to a dozen apps.


I wish Apple would give those of us who want to stay organized the option to do so. It is quite easy to design and code for processes to determine whether or not an update for an app is available no matter where the app is located or moved to.


(The alternative for a user is to prefix an app-typing code to an application's name so that all apps of a particular type get listed in groups but it's too kludgy for my liking so I haven't tried it, and so I don't know if even that would be allowed or not, nor do I know whether a name conflict between the app-wrapper and the enclosed binary would result in adverse effects.)


I've posted a few suggestions to Apple at the very link you provided but nothing doing. :-(

Jan 7, 2018 3:15 AM

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Jan 7, 2018 3:40 AM in response to KDS-KDS In response to KDS-KDS

FWIW, it's very simple to create folders for third-party apps and install them there. It's also easy to move any apps installed from the App Store. What you have left in the Applications folder is only the built-in apps that come with macOS. That's not all that cluttered.

Jan 7, 2018 3:40 AM

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Jan 7, 2018 9:03 AM in response to KDS-KDS In response to KDS-KDS

FWIW, I have never used Spotlight since I find it rather superfluous.


Equally bad to dump everything in your home dir and then over-rely on Spotlight, smart folders, etc. Dumping stuff in your home or desktop is confusing and it's clutter, and the same applies for Applications.


I'm not sure I understand your argument. The Applications folder is arranged alphabetically. So how difficult is it to scroll down to "M" if you're looking for Mactracker?


User uploaded file


To make it even easier for myself, I've created aliases to my most used apps and put them in my dock (in an arrangement I understand) - all of those apps will open with one click (they enlarge while hovering over them). I generally have 50 - 80 aliases there.


User uploaded file


As far as I know, changing the name of system installed apps will either a) not be possible or b) the system will no longer be able to find them.

Jan 7, 2018 9:03 AM

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Jan 10, 2018 12:49 AM in response to babowa In response to babowa

Re "FWIW, I have never used Spotlight since I find it rather superfluous." I seldom use it myself; I just use it for off-the-books tricks. I wrote what I did only to convey that I knew about the possibility of using it to circuitously achieve my ends.


Re "The Applications folder is arranged alphabetically. So how difficult is it to scroll down to "M" if you're looking for Mactracker?" you did not read what I had written in my post: "You can't find an oddly-named app when you need it but can't recollect its odd name. "


Re " I've created aliases to my most used apps and put them in my dock" you don't need to create aliases for apps and/or apps in the dock; it's pointless. You create an alias (a link to the original) of a document of whatever type when you want to, say, cross-file it. As for apps and the dock, simply drag whatever app to wherever you want in the dock or if you've opened an app and decide you want it to stay in the dock, ctrl-click on it and select Options->Keep . . . .


Re "As far as I know, changing the name of system installed apps . . ." this was a general "I-don't-know" on my part because, as I wrote, it's a bit of a kludge. I do know for sure that Preview and TextEdit behave perfectly well if you change the name of the app wrapper. Years back I duped each to a MyPreview and a MyTextEdit because I wanted to maintain separate workspaces for only those two apps to keep work/official/business and personal documents in their own respective workspaces for organization. Another use for this technique has long been practical: every now and again a .pdf or .rtf lacking in correctness or integrity will crash the respective application, so it's wise to open something you're testing or have acquired from a dubious source in a copy of the respective app as that won't have you pulling out your hair. Finally, this app-duping got necessitated from OSX because in predecessor NEXTSTEP/OpenStep it was possible to open as many instances of an app as you wanted by Alt-clicking on the app.

Jan 10, 2018 12:49 AM

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Jan 10, 2018 12:53 AM in response to KDS-KDS In response to KDS-KDS

Re "Re "The Applications folder is arranged alphabetically. So how difficult is it to scroll down to "M" if you're looking for Mactracker?" you did not read what I had written in my post: "You can't find an oddly-named app when you need it but can't recollect its odd name. ""

Forgot to mention that there's another use for the logical organization I am seeking to do. When I want to do something very particular with/to a PDF or audio file, I would much rather thoughtfully look over my half-a-dozen PDF/Audio apps for a minute before selecting the one I think best fits the needs of the moment. Easy to do if you have a 'PDF' and 'Sound&Music' subfolder inside Applications; difficult-to-impossible to do otherwise.

Jan 10, 2018 12:53 AM

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Jan 10, 2018 9:25 AM in response to KDS-KDS In response to KDS-KDS

Re " I've created aliases to my most used apps and put them in my dock" you don't need to create aliases for apps and/or apps in the dock; it's pointless. You create an alias (a link to the original) of a document of whatever type when you want to, say, cross-file it. As for apps and the dock, simply drag whatever app to wherever you want in the dock or if you've opened an app and decide you want it to stay in the dock, ctrl-click on it and select Options->Keep . . . .



Dragging the app icon to the dock creates an alias (shortcut) path to the app. I know how to use the dock.


As for the remainder of your arguments: good luck.

Jan 10, 2018 9:25 AM

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Jan 14, 2018 4:56 AM in response to babowa In response to babowa

Re "Dragging the app icon to the dock creates an alias (shortcut) path to the app," sounds good; what you had originally written I understood as you creating aliases to apps and dragging the aliases to the dock.


Thanks for the clarification and the (needed?) luck!

Jan 14, 2018 4:56 AM

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Question: MacOS On-Board / Pre-Installed Apps . . .