macOS performance: it's getting worse and worse

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Level 1

32 points

macOS performance: it's getting worse and worse

Hello everybody,

I am not starting this thread because of an actual problem with one of my Macs. However, I'd like to know your opinion about macOS' file system performance getting slower and slower with every OS update. For example, on my MacBook Pro from 2015, booting up as well as starting apps take pretty long times, just killing any advantage you would expect from state-of-the-art SSDs. Even on newest Macs with SSDs, every access to the file system seems to be extremely slow. APFS did not make it better – no, in my opinion, it got worse.

Over the past years I was always thinking that this is just the way how modern operating systems feel like, not considering other options such as Windows at all. In fact, I haven't touched Windows machines for quite a long time.

However, I am using an old 2009 MacMini as a kind of home server. OS X 10.11 is the last supported Apple OS on that machine. It features a 320 GB HDD, 4 GB RAM and 2x2Ghz Dual Core CPU. One could think that these specs are still good enough for simple office work. But no, in OS X, they are not: even simple tasks like browsing the Internet etc. are so slow that you just don't want to do it anymore. Sometimes, starting apps takes more than a minute before something appears. This applies to integrated apps such as iTunes or Pages etc., but also to 3rd party apps like Chrome browser or MS Office. So, I was actually giving up on the hope that there is anything I can do with this machine that would make it usable again (clean re-install of the OS did not help). However, as a last resort, I thought about installing Windows 10. Not an easy task, because Bootcamp prevents you from installing anything newer than Windows 7 on older Macs. But, I figured out ways to do it anyway, and succeeded. And now read this: this nine year old machine feels perfectly fast. Starting all—really all— apps is significantly faster than on my 2015, SSD-enabled MacBook Pro running High Sierra. The responsiveness is great and makes this 2009 MacMini a really reliable, fast office machine.

I am wondering what you guys think about the bad macOS performance. Isn't it time for Apple to re-introduce macOS with a completely revised kernel that fixes the performance issues that got worse and worse during the recent OS updates?

MacBook Pro with Retina display, macOS High Sierra (10.13.3)

Posted on Feb 27, 2018 4:53 AM

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Answer 1

getangar

Level 5

4,548 points

Feb 27, 2018 4:58 AM in response to G-Tech1

Hi there, I don't think this kind of question are really in topic with the purpose of thi forum.

Anyway, I do not notice anythink bad on the performance of my Mac after upgrades are coming. Important is to have the right Hardware, maybe 4Gb + machanical HD is not the best with modern OS and as you can see, SSD can help a lot 🙂

Anyway, if you think to have a problem in terms of perforamnce, there should be a reason for that, execute this: https://etrecheck.com/ and post here the full report: maybe we can help you.

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Answer 2

etresoft

Level 8

46,672 points

Feb 27, 2018 5:21 AM in response to G-Tech1

G-Tech1 wrote:

I am wondering what you guys think about the bad macOS performance. Isn't it time for Apple to re-introduce macOS with a completely revised kernel that fixes the performance issues that got worse and worse during the recent OS updates?

Hello G-Tech1,

I was in complete agreement up until that last bit. I guess technically I agree with that too. But I think it is pointless. How do you propose that we force Apple, Inc. to do our bidding? Threaten it that we will switch to Windows? That's an idle threat and Apple knows it. Switch to Linux for any serious work? Apple did that itself a decade ago.

So what viable options do we have then? Keep using that 2009 machine? For what? An OS that old won't even connect to a modern website. Apple isn't alone in this incessant push to upgrade. Windows has better relative performance on older hardware, but that's about it. It's still Windows.

A better approach is to learn learn the tricks of the trade practiced by Apple and all the other name brand tech companies and avoid being nicked and dimed on a recurring monthly basis. That means doing a lot more research on the future, not the past. For example, you find that 2009 Mac mini to be slow? I bet it is faster than the current low-end Mac mini. You can probably upgrade it with an SSD and RAM too. But some of the newer Macs have super-fast SSDs. If you are going to make a new purchase, do your research, spend money, and don't be a chump.

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Answer 3

G-Tech1 Author

Level 1

32 points

Feb 27, 2018 5:58 AM in response to etresoft

Hello etresoft,

I fully agree with you that it is better to look forward, not backward. And, I can certainly forgive Apple to not think of nine years old Macs when developing new architecture. However, that macOS also feels slow on brand new high performance machines, is a severe problem, in my opinion, and something that likely could be fixed with better code quality.

I also agree that it is (not yet) a reason to switch back to Windows on newer machines.

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Answer 4

etresoft

Level 8

46,672 points

Feb 27, 2018 6:19 AM in response to G-Tech1

G-Tech1 wrote:

Hello etresoft,

However, that macOS also feels slow on brand new high performance machines, is a severe problem, in my opinion, and something that likely could be fixed with better code quality.

Again, I am in complete agreement. But that is simply not going to happen. I'm a software developer, so I follow these issues closely. This is not just an Apple problem. In most organizations, software simply has no value. Only hardware, or cash, has value. Software is an expense. It should be minimized at all costs. A prominent Apple developer recently posted on his blog that software quality is just a waste of time.

The goal is to always pay software developers the absolute minimum. Ideally, software developer should be paid nothing at all. I'm not joking here. Many people sincerely feel that all software should be free. They refuse to pay software developers. But they will pay hackers who crack software so it can be used for free.

I'm afraid to tell you that, as bad as Apple is, they are better than most.

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Answer 5

G-Tech1 Author

Level 1

32 points

Feb 27, 2018 7:05 AM in response to etresoft

Not sure if I can agree on that. We all moved to Apple because it "simply worked". It seems this time is over. The only reason why we are all still using Macs is mostly Steve Job's heritage, the things that did not yet get destroyed by the new management. There are plenty of them, not necessary to name them here in the Apple community. They are also the reason why I would still buy a new Mac again. But my expectations for the future are not so pleasant if they proceed this way. The performance issues become more and more annoying, or the fact that macOS still cannot handle proper multitasking (have you ever tried working on your Mac while a video conference is running?) really make me ask if Apple stopped investing entirely in the MacOS platform. Or: file sharing—yes, moving to SMB may have been a wise decision in general, but can/should you do it when even in a pure Mac environment (macOS server and macOS clients) the protocol does not work very well because its implementation is bad?

I am working in a larger software company and do absolutely NOT agree that software developers are not paid well. In fact, they make more money than most of the other employees providing comparable professional experience. Code quality is very important to us, too.

The thing is: it is not the first time where Apple has have been in such a situation: when they did the move from OS 9 to OS X, it was pretty similar. I am hoping that we can look forward to a brand-new macOS 11 that starts from scratch with a new code base, just like OS X did in the very beginning.

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Answer 6

etresoft

Level 8

46,672 points

Feb 27, 2018 7:20 AM in response to G-Tech1

G-Tech1 wrote:

I am hoping that we can look forward to a brand-new macOS 11 that starts from scratch with a new code base, just like OS X did in the very beginning.

From what I've heard, you are going to get exactly what you asked for. Don't blame me when it happens.

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Answer 7

den.thed

Level 9

77,356 points

Feb 27, 2018 8:26 AM in response to G-Tech1

I personally do not think that macOS is the problem. The real problem with running macOX on older and some newer base systems, is all of the new features and services that are built into macOS.

For example: I have a 2010 Mac Mini (SSD / 8GB) and a couple of 2012 Mac Mini’s (SSDs / 16GB) that all run 10.13.3 without breaking a sweet. The 2010 Mac Mini runs just as well if not better on MacOS 10.13.3 as it did on O SX 10.6.8

The trick in running a faster macOS on both older and newer Mac’s, is to disable the features and services that you do not use or need.

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Answer 8

G-Tech1 Author

Level 1

32 points

Feb 27, 2018 8:24 AM in response to den.thed

I don't think so. MacOS' problem is the very, very bad file system performance. Booting up and starting applications takes too much time for brand new systems running on fast SSDs. This is an architectural issue that became worse over the years. And it is also its bad RAM and CPU load management that causes applications to feel slow or causes them to get almost stuck when another process requests 100% CPU. These are the things that Windows always did better and where it even improved during the last years. MacOS, however, got worse: it is hard to believe that a modern OS cannot handle a video conference (real-time video encoding requests 100% CPU) and simple office work (opening an email etc.) simultaneously without taking ages for the latter.

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Answer 9

den.thed

Level 9

77,356 points

Feb 27, 2018 8:52 AM in response to G-Tech1

What are you loading at startup...?

I generally sleep my Mac’s 24-7, but my boot times never exceed 20 to 30 seconds.

4GB is hardly enough for macOS and a few basic App’s. In order to run Office and other App’s at the same time, you will need more RAM.

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Answer 10

G-Tech1 Author

Level 1

32 points

Feb 27, 2018 9:03 AM in response to den.thed

There is nothing additional to load on my Mac. Yes, 30 seconds sounds realistic on a newer, SDD based Mac. I too boot my MacBook Pro on rare occasions only, so the fact that it takes 30 seconds does not concern me a lot. It is rather the chewy responsiveness when you work with macOS, especially when starting / closing applications. I do agree, if the Mac is up to date, one can pretty well use it. It feels chewy, but is still fast enough to work with. But I am still thinking that it could be much faster. Boot Windows 10 via Bootcamp on a recent Mac: it will take only 5-8 seconds until the desktop is up and running. Starting an application in Windows is usually < 1 second. Compare this to macOS...

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macOS performance: it's getting worse and worse

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