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Question: Font errors in MS Word when upgrading High Sierra - NEW

The change from 'Times' to 'Times Roman' that occurred when High Sierra arrived is still causing MS-related problems, but of a different sort. MS dropped Equation Editor, apparently for security reasons, telling everyone to use MathType instead. All well and good, as MathType has more features than Equation Editor did, although it requires an additional purchase. However, ...


The trouble is that the High-Sierra-induced font change is not handled properly by the latest MathType release for the Mac (6.7h), and the vendor has yet to find a suitable solution. 'Times' defaults to 'Cambria', and three separate error boxes are displayed each time an old equation is opened for revision. There is a work-around for new equations provided by the vendor (Design Science, now Wiris), substituting 'Times Roman'. This still presents a problem because the old 'Times' and new 'Times Roman' are not strictly, visually identical. Contrary to an earlier comment, this IS an Apple problem, and Apple needs to fix it. Otherwise, old MS Word/PowerPoint files using 'Times' and new ones will look different, while revisions to old files will be a nightmare.

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Mar 29, 2018 10:23 AM in response to Robert Stengel In response to Robert Stengel

FWIW. Office 2011 is a 32 bit app. It is not officially supported in High Sierra. High Sierra is phasing out support for 32 bit apps and will be the last macOS that you can run a 32 bit app.


Here is a link for info on fonts installed by older versions of Office. https://wordmvp.com/Mac/Disable-Fonts.html


I suggest you download the demo for Office365 and see if that helps or revert to Sierra.

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Mar 9, 2018 2:33 PM in response to Robert Stengel In response to Robert Stengel

You've already asked this question here:


Has the 'Times' font (Sierra) been changed to 'Times Roman' in High Sierra? MS Word 2011 docs appear to be using a diff…


The answer is still the same. No, nothing has changed. Both are installed by default with macOS. Times is in the System folder. Times New Roman is in the Library folder. They are separate (though nearly identical) versions of Times.


Apple has been installing these two versions of Times since Leopard, 10.5.x. You will see both in your font lists.


Actually both were installed all the way back to OS 9. Between 10.0 and 10.4, it was assumed you'd use these much older versions of the fonts if you installed Classic (OS 9) within OS X. So really, they've been installed by Apple since at least OS 8. Probably longer.

Mar 9, 2018 2:33 PM

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Mar 9, 2018 2:46 PM in response to Kurt Lang In response to Kurt Lang

Yes, 'Times' and 'Times New Roman' both appear. However, I am talking about 'Times Roman', not 'Times New Roman." I just checked, and MS Office/Word 2011 does not list 'Times Roman.' My new question remains unanswered.

Mar 9, 2018 2:46 PM

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Mar 9, 2018 2:58 PM in response to Robert Stengel In response to Robert Stengel

However, I am talking about 'Times Roman'

Alrighty, that's different. Who knows why people who make fonts feel they need to do this, but it's like they can't help themselves. Think of any heavily used font, and there's guaranteed to be at least five versions of it. I have these for Times:


Times

Times New Roman

Times Ten

Times Europa

Times Phonetic

Times Dual Greek

Times Seven

Times Expert

Times Squared

Times Small Text

Times Roman


There may be other versions, but the one you're looking for would be an old Type 1 PostScript version from Adobe.

Mar 9, 2018 2:58 PM

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Mar 9, 2018 3:55 PM in response to Robert Stengel In response to Robert Stengel

Robert Stengel wrote:


Contrary to an earlier comment, this IS an Apple problem, and Apple needs to fix it.


For Apple to see your opinion on this, you need to use


http://www.apple.com/feedback


It would help your case if you could show an example involving an Apple app rather than just 3rd party stuff.

Mar 9, 2018 3:55 PM

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Mar 9, 2018 5:54 PM in response to Robert Stengel In response to Robert Stengel

Managed to miss some of your original comments. Tom's reply got me to take another look.


You mention "old Word/PowerPoint files using 'Times'", and defaulting to 'Cambria'.


This has nothing to do with the OS. Office 2008 and later use Cambria as the default font. When you open those old files that used Times Roman and Office can't find that font, it replaces the font with something it does have. Cambria.


Once you find and add a copy of Times Roman to your Mac, those old files will open as you expect.

Mar 9, 2018 5:54 PM

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Mar 28, 2018 9:01 AM in response to Kurt Lang In response to Kurt Lang

There's still no satisfactory response to my question. If I open a new document in MS Word 2011 and specify 'Times' font on the pulldown list, the toolbar shows 'Times Roman,' not 'Times.' My Font Book shows 'Times,' not 'Times Roman,' and so my my question remains: Has Apple replaced the old 'Times' with a new version called 'Times' on the pulldown list but that is actually a different font, 'Times Roman' ? Incidentally, I have raised the issue with Apple Support but will, of course, not get a reply.

Mar 28, 2018 9:01 AM

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Mar 28, 2018 9:33 AM in response to Robert Stengel In response to Robert Stengel

No. Apple has nothing to do with this. That's just what Office does. It remembers what font was used, whether you have it on system or not.


Quick example. I created a simple test Word document using the font, Freebooter Script:


User uploaded file


Closed Word and disabled the font. Launched Word again with test doc. The text is obviously no longer showing in the correct font, but Word continues to show that font as being in use:


User uploaded file


That's all you're seeing. Word is showing the font name used when the document was created. If that particular version of Times is that important, you need to locate, install and enable it. Otherwise, do a Command+A to select all of the text and change it to a version of Times you do have.


Virtually all professional apps do this. InDesign will show a missing font's name in the font menu when you select text that used it, and all text that is supposed to use that font will be highlighted with a salmon colored background to immediately, and visually let you know a font used in the document is missing:


User uploaded file

Mar 28, 2018 9:33 AM

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Mar 28, 2018 10:25 AM in response to Robert Stengel In response to Robert Stengel

I doubt Apple will spend any time on this, but you might want to ask in the MS forums. Even there it may be hard since 2011 is no longer officially supported. Do you have the same problems with 2016?


https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/msoffice/forum/msoffice_word-mso_mac

Mar 28, 2018 10:25 AM

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Mar 28, 2018 10:46 AM in response to Tom Gewecke In response to Tom Gewecke

I haven't installed 2016 for fear of exacerbating my problems. Also, I use MathType, which is still not compatible with 2016. I have tried everything that Kurt suggested but the problem is still unsolved. I found Times.dfont on my old G5 and imported it to my Font Book in spite of orange Warning triangles. This produced multiple copies; I Resolved Automatically, which left just one copy of Times Regular, Italic, Bold, and Bold Italic, but they all are turned "Off". When I tried to access Times in MS Word, it appeared as a selection, but as Kurt said, another font (probably Helvetica) took its place. Opening a new document, Times New Roman now appears to be the only alternative, with no Times Roman either.

Mar 28, 2018 10:46 AM

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Mar 28, 2018 10:53 AM in response to Robert Stengel In response to Robert Stengel

I found Times.dfont on my old G5 and imported it to my Font Book in spite of orange Warning triangles.

No help. That's just an older version of the Times font installed by the OS you're currently using. As you saw, all it did was create font conflicts.

Opening a new document, Times New Roman now appears to be the only alternative, with no Times Roman either.

You can't select something that doesn't exist. As I noted, old documents will show that font name because it's part of the document data to remember it was used. New documents don't know a thing about Times Roman because you don't have it.

Mar 28, 2018 10:53 AM

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Mar 29, 2018 10:23 AM in response to Robert Stengel In response to Robert Stengel

FWIW. Office 2011 is a 32 bit app. It is not officially supported in High Sierra. High Sierra is phasing out support for 32 bit apps and will be the last macOS that you can run a 32 bit app.


Here is a link for info on fonts installed by older versions of Office. https://wordmvp.com/Mac/Disable-Fonts.html


I suggest you download the demo for Office365 and see if that helps or revert to Sierra.

Mar 29, 2018 10:23 AM

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Question: Font errors in MS Word when upgrading High Sierra - NEW