iBook G4 freezing, and nothing much more

Question

iBook G4 freezing, and nothing much more

I’m hoping for some creative help with a very troubling problem I’m having with my G4 iBook.

Bought in 2004, this 14-inch iBook is running Tiger (though it came with Panther) and has 768 MB of RAM, a 60 gig hard drive, and a 1.07 GHz processor. It has never caused me any problems and I have been able to run an impressive array of programs at the same time with only about a dozen full-scale crashes that I can recall.

About three weeks ago, the computer started to freeze repeatedly, particularly when hooked up to an external monitor or TV. I ran the Disk Utility, both from the computer and off the Mac Os install disk, though no problems were found. The freezing continued and became even more persistent. At that time, programs would become non-responsive, the clock would stop, but the mouse pointer could still be moved. Sometimes, a thin line of zebra stripes would appear at the top of the screen and the mouse pointer would not move. A small, multi-coloured line (about one pixel wide and barely the height of the top menu bar) developed on the screen and has remained since.

Luckily, I use the computer for work and sent it off to our company repairperson, who specializes in Macs. As always seems to be the way, he could find nothing wrong with the computer — it worked fine for him over the three days he tested it. He installed a fresh copy of Tiger, removed Norton Utilities, which often can often cause operating problems, according to him. (He did not remove any other programs.) He did a hardware diagnosis and found no problems. He sent it back to me.

When I got the computer back, at first it worked fine. The only problem was that a blue screen would appear and the computer would become unresponsive when I hooked it up on the fly to an external monitor. (The computer tech suggested I hook up the source before powering the computer on to avoid a crash, though this was unnecessary before).

I moved my preferences from the archived system folder to the new library folder. The freezing then returned. This time, much worse. Without going into detail at this point about the freezing, I can say that the freezing became so bad that I decided to do something drastic — wipe the hard drive and re-install Tiger completely, which I did. (I backed up all my documents and preferences on another hard drive, of course.) This seemed like a good thing to do, seeing as the problem may have been with one or more of my programs. I was getting some corrupted file messages before I wiped the hard drive.

Sadly, even after two reinstalls of Tiger, freezes are persistent. I have also reset the power management unit several times, along with resetting the Parameter RAM. I have also turned off hard disk spin down and the option that puts the computer to sleep (in the Energy Saver control panel) to avoid unnecessary sleeping. No luck — freezes continue.

At this point, the computer has a clean hard drive and fresh copy of Tiger, including all the software updates through the Apple menu. I do have a few basic programs installed, such as Microsoft Office, iPhoto and some small, free downloadable programs. There is about 41 gigs of free hard disk space.

Here are the freeze patterns:

- When the computer freezes, the seconds counter on the clock stops, all programs are unresponsive and no force quitting is possible. The pointer can still be moved by the mouse, but that is the only action the computer makes. The only way to reset the computer is to hold down the power button.
- Typically, if the computer is powered back on within less than five minutes, it boots up past the Apple symbol and spinning dial, then freezes on the blue screen.
- If I wait for about five minutes or more, the computer will almost always boot up normally.
- The computer seems particularly susceptible when peripheral devices are attached while running. For instance, it has crashed a few times while the computer was running as soon as — or shortly after — I inserted a USB key, a firewire cable (for a firewire transfer), or unplugged and re-plugged in the power adapter.
- It has also taken to freezing or crashing when audio or video is played — iTunes, DVD Player (especially) or Quicktime. It doesn’t always freeze or crash, but it more often does than does not. It has crashed a few times when Acquisition — a peer-to-peer file sharing program — was running. I am currently running the Internet through an Airport wireless connection.
- The computer was freezing consistently today after about 45 minutes operation, even with no programs running. I reset the Power Management Unit, Parameter RAM and disabled sleep and hard disk spin down, and it ran for two hours this evening (with no programs running and no network connected) and did not freeze. I intend to try a longer run overnight to see how it fairs.

Sorry for the long description. I just want to be very thorough with my explanation so potential problem solvers have enough to go on.

Hope you can help! I really appreciate it. I love this computer and am not quite ready (financially) to buy a new one.

- niall

14" iBook G4, 768 RAM, Mac OS X (10.4.8), Processor: 1.07 GHz, HD: 60 gig, Airport Extreme installed

Posted on Feb 2, 2007 10:27 PM

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Answer 1

Boece

Level 5

6,264 points

Feb 3, 2007 5:50 AM in response to Niall Mckenna

Niall, welcome! And thank you for such a clear description of your problems and what you have tried.

My first question is whether you have problems after a clean install of the OS and with no external monitor attached? I ask because the earliest symptoms were related to the monitor.

I think we are going to have to try to narrow the problem down to four likely causes:

1) the monitor

2) RAM

3) the hard drive

4) the logic board and hard drive interface circuitry

It would be helpful to eliminate the monitor from all the testing that you will do. So make sure it is not attached.

A basic test of the logic board and RAM would be to boot from the install or diagnostic disc and see if the computer eventually freezes. (Don't actually install, just leave the computer running after booting from the disc.) You might want to turn down the screen brightness so you don't get burn in.

If your computer doesn't freeze under this test, then the major functioning of the logic board may be OK.

There is an inexpensive memtest program that can further test your RAM. We can tell you more about that after you do the test I just outlined.

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Answer 2

Boece

Level 5

6,264 points

Feb 3, 2007 5:55 AM in response to Niall Mckenna

- Typically, if the computer is powered back on within less than five minutes, it boots up past the Apple symbol and spinning dial, then freezes on the blue screen.
- If I wait for about five minutes or more, the computer will almost always boot up normally.

These symptoms suggest that a component is behaving differently depending on whether it is hot or just warm.

This could be a problem with the calibration of the heads on the hard drive. Or it could be a "cold-solder" joint on the logic board or hard drive. Or a capacitor that is slowly dying.

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Answer 3

Boece

Level 5

6,264 points

Feb 3, 2007 6:13 AM in response to Niall Mckenna

Since you asked for creative ideas, here's another one to try, if we don't get anywhere with what has already been suggested.

There are LiveCD versions of the Linux operating system which can boot your iBook without messing with the Hard Drive. Booting from one of these CDs would allow you to extensively test all aspects of you iBook and peripherals, without getting the hard drive involved.

I can recommend the PPC version of Ubuntu Linux 6.06 (Dapper Drake). I ran it on my iBook when the HD took a vacation. It reassured me that my iBook was otherwise basically healthy.

You would have to get the guy at work to download the ISO file and burn you a CD.

http://releases.ubuntu.com/6.06/

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Answer 4

Boece

Level 5

6,264 points

Feb 3, 2007 6:35 AM in response to Niall Mckenna

sent it off to our company repairperson, who specializes in Macs. As always seems to be the way, he could find nothing wrong with the computer — it worked fine for him over the three days he tested it.

I'm guessing he didn't have an external monitor connected during this test.

Have you unplugged and reconnected the monitor hundreds of times during the iBook's life, or does it just stay put on your desk at home?

Did the repairperson use your power adapter, or a different one? The PA could also be a source of trouble, though probably not too likely if your battery charges properly.

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Answer 5

Feb 3, 2007 8:08 AM in response to Boece

Wow, what a friendly forums.

Let me clarify a few things that came up in the replies so far:
- I have rarely been using an external monitor, and not once since the computer was returned from the repair guy. I would say, over its life, I've attached it to an external monitor no more than two dozen times, and to an external TV (with the Apple video adapter) hundreds of times. So - Boece - the problem has been occuring with no external monitor attached.
- The comment about the power adapter is very interesting. (Good observation, Boece.) The repair guy did use a different power adapter for testing. I also recall that the problem started right after a friend tripped over my power adapter, which caused the plug in end to fly out of the socket. I have since been using that power adapter all the time (my battery is so old, it only holds a 15-minute charge, so I don't run it with just a battery). It is interesting that the computer seems to freeze when the PA is unplugged then plugged back in. Could this really be a source of trouble? I will try plugging and unplugging and the computer to my TV with the PA unplugged (running just from battery) and see what happens.
- I did run one test overnight, leaving the computer turned on and dimming the screen. It was connected to my wireless network. At some point during a period that was less than four hours, it froze. After I rebooted during the night, I ran the computer with the network disconnected. I did not dim the screen and it turned off the display after the usual 12 minutes I have it set to do so. It ran for about five hours with no problems.
- I will now try Boece's test, running the computer just from the install disk.
- Regarding the Linux test disk, can I not just burn that from my iMac?

I'll be in touch again soon after that above install disk test.

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Answer 6

Boece

Level 5

6,264 points

Feb 3, 2007 8:22 AM in response to Niall Mckenna

Power adapter sure looks promising as the smoking gun.

RE Linux, sure you can burn it. Didn't know you had a second Mac. Using DiskUtility, drag the ISO file onto the disk window pane on the left, select the ISO name in that pane, and click on the burn button.

Once you isolate the problem (whatever it is) and fix it, you will probably have to re-install Mac OSX because your forced shutdowns may have messed up the OS.

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Answer 7

Feb 3, 2007 11:38 AM in response to Boece

Hi all,

Looks like I've found a post with pretty much the same prob as myself. So thought I'd post to this one as any solutions would probably help the both of us.

My symptoms..

Yesterday:-
--shutdown while in sleep mode
--when i woke it up it froze almost immediately after completing it's boot and login
--this went on for a while as i tried to suss out the prob.

Left it overnight and came back to it today.
--boots as far as the blue screen before login (I'm leaving it on at the mo to test the 'five minutes later' thing as mentioned above)

I've reset the PRAM and PMU as per the instructions on here, have tried it with batt and mains, batt only, mains only with battery removed, no difference.

I can't get it to boot from the restore cd#1 (option on boot?).

I can get it hooked up to my PM-G4 in target mode.

Am going to take out the Airport and RAM stick in a moment to check that, but not holding out much hope. :/

(watching this thread intently!)

Matt

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Answer 8

Boece

Level 5

6,264 points

Feb 3, 2007 11:44 AM in response to Matt Grover

Matt, I hope I don't sound rude, but it might be better to start a new thread to post your problem. Although your issue may sound similar to the original poster's, it may not be.

Trying to provide solutions to multiple users in the same thread can make for very confusing conversation.

The original poster has provided quite a bit of specific background information, which may be quite different from yours. To give everyone a fair shake, it generally is recommended in this forum to start new threads each time a user needs help.

Again, I'm not trying to chase you away; but it would help if you started a new thread just for your issue.

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Answer 9

Feb 3, 2007 12:17 PM in response to Boece

Hi Boece.

Here are some results of today's tests:

- I ran the computer using only the battery, plugging it into and unplugging it from an external TV using the Apple video adapter. The computer froze when plugging that cable in on the fly. It did work - mirroring the display to the TV - when I booted the computer up with the cable already plugged in. When re-booting the computer with just the battery after it froze, I had to wait a few minutes before the computer would boot up fully.
- I ran the computer from the Mac OS X install disk for about three hours with no problems. I stopped the test because I figured it would just continue to work fine, and I wanted to try some other stuff.
- I downloaded and burned a copy of the Ubuntu Linux system. It loaded fine from the CD and loaded the operating system up. I am assuming that when you say to test peripherals with this operating system, you mean loading the system from the disk and plugging, unplugging and running devices from it - printers, USB keys, mouse, etc. Is that right, or are their diagnostic tools I can use? Use of Ubuntu was not error free, however. I played a couple of videos included with Ubuntu. The computer froze when I closed the window containing the second video. When I re-booted the computer with Ubuntu, it would not load up properly - it froze on a beige-coloured screen with some sort of sound looping in the background.

Would the fact that the computer is freezing/crashing withe Ubuntu running mean that the problem is NOT with the hard drive, seeing that the hard drive, I assume, is not engaged in its operation?

What do readers recommend I try next?

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Answer 10

Boece

Level 5

6,264 points

Feb 3, 2007 12:52 PM in response to Niall Mckenna

You are a very good diagnostician!

Yes, the freezing under Ubuntu would suggest that the Hard Drive is not the sole culprit in your problems, if it is a culprit at all!

And yes, you surmised correctly that running Ubuntu would let you test peripherals by plugging and un-plugging, thereby seeing if they might crash when the hard drive was not in play.

I think I would try memtest next. Your problem probably isn't RAM, but fixing RAM will be cheaper than fixing the logic board, so let's hope the problem is RAM.

http://www.memtestosx.org/

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Answer 11

Boece

Level 5

6,264 points

Feb 3, 2007 12:49 PM in response to Niall Mckenna

The fact that your computer froze and wouldn't restart properly when running Ubuntu, suggests that you might need to reset PMU and/or PRAM after such events.

Or you have a temperature-related problem and something has to cool off before the iBook will work again.

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Answer 12

Feb 3, 2007 11:42 PM in response to Boece

I ran the memtest this evening. Although it did not create a log file that I could review later (I was hoping it would), it did not appear to find any problems. That is, the test ran three times and "ok" appeared after each test element. Does that mean a-okay, as far as you know?

I also ran the Apple Hardware Test that came with my install disk and it detected no problems.

So, at this stage, the problem has not been pinned down to a specific place. But I think we are quite sure it's hardware and not software (right?), given that the problem occurs both after re-installing software and running an operating system from CD/DVD.

Now, given that this problem is persisting, and the RAM and hard drive seem to have been eliminated as the culprits, could it be the logic board? Are there any other tests that can do a deep test on other hardware?

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Answer 13

Boece

Level 5

6,264 points

Feb 4, 2007 5:34 AM in response to Niall Mckenna

Luckily, I use the computer for work and sent it off to our company repairperson, who specializes in Macs. As always seems to be the way, he could find nothing wrong with the computer — it worked fine for him over the three days he tested it. He installed a fresh copy of Tiger, removed Norton Utilities, which often can often cause operating problems, according to him. (He did not remove any other programs.) He did a hardware diagnosis and found no problems. He sent it back to me.

This is the major sign of hope so far.

If the computer could run for 3 days and be functional enough to reinstall the OS, the logic board and HD can't be totally FUBAR.

Can your computer guy lend you a different power adapter?

Now, I'm guessing the computer guy didn't plug in peripherals while he was testing, so the problem may be with your ports. There could be a cracked solder joint, or the hot-plugging of your TV connection could have traumatized some electrical component inside the iBook.

You can't count on your OS at this point, because you have done some forced shutdowns. I'd recommend borrowing a new power adapter and seeing if Ubuntu can run your iBook for an extended period without freezing. Probably best not to go heavy on the multimedia test, since that could just as well be an Ubuntu bug.

Running Ubuntu with it's screen saver going for a day will be a pretty good test. Since Ubuntu loads into RAM, your system will get a thorough workout. Don't plug anything else in. I'm trying to reproduce the results that your computer guy got.

There's one other far-fetched possibility that would be good to check: could some of the outlets in your house be improperly wired? You can pick up an inexpensive outlet tester that will check to make sure the hot and neutral wires aren't reversed, and that the ground (earth) is properly grounded. You should check the proper wiring of all outlets that are involved with the computer, namely the TV's outlet, the monitor's outlet, and outlets that power any peripheral.

Again, this is a long shot, but it has been the answer for me in the past.

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Answer 14

Feb 4, 2007 8:49 AM in response to Boece

Thanks for the follow up suggestions. Trying a new power adapter sounds like a worthy test. They are expensive to replace, so no point buying a new one just yet, when it appears to be doing everything right

If force shutting down the computer ruins the OS, do you suggest I simply reinstall the OS periodically, or should I be wiping the whole hard drive and re-installing the OS?

And an advance question - if Ubuntu runs successfully for a long period of time with a different power adapter, and also passes peripheral test, would the conclusion be that the PA was the culprit? If that test passes, should I re-load the OS or wipe the whole computer's hard drive and try running the computer in regular operation?

At this point, I will probably be in touch again mid-week as the replacement PA will need to be sent from a different city.

On the faulty wiring. The adapter has made a sparking sound when plugged into one of my outlets. Usually, I run the computer through a power bar, though. I should point out, however, that the problem has occurred in two different locations.

Thank you so much for your help thus far.

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Answer 15

Boece

Level 5

6,264 points

Feb 4, 2007 9:13 AM in response to Niall Mckenna

If force shutting down the computer ruins the OS, do you suggest I simply reinstall the OS periodically, or should I be wiping the whole hard drive and re-installing the OS?

When your computer is running fine, a forced shutdown usually is not a problem. When stuff is not working, then we can't rule out the forced shutdown as being a contributing factor.

And an advance question - if Ubuntu runs successfully for a long period of time with a different power adapter, and also passes peripheral test, would the conclusion be that the PA was the culprit? If that test passes, should I re-load the OS or wipe the whole computer's hard drive and try running the computer in regular operation?

An erase and fresh OS install would be the most robust fix, since you run no risk of bringing broken files back into your system.

On the faulty wiring. The adapter has made a sparking sound when plugged into one of my outlets. Usually, I run the computer through a power bar, though. I should point out, however, that the problem has occurred in two different locations.

The sparking can be normal. I see it on mine.

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