FTP Uploading Hidden Unix Files Fails

Question

Level 1

0 points

FTP Uploading Hidden Unix Files Fails

This problem has existed every since I first tried to upload files on a Mac via FTP (at least to my linux webserver).

It seems the hidden unix files used for indexing (or something) ( ie: ._ ) and exist for each file on the hard drive are the problem.

In the past I just setup a filter on my FTP client to omit those files, and I've heard there is another setting on most FTP clients that will solve the problem, but I'm wondering if there is an operating system tweak I can do.

I am trying to use the FTP client built into Adobe Lightroom, and it appears to be failing for the same reason, but I don't have any options to set that will fix it.

Thanks a lot,
DiFFeReN7

Mac OS X (10.4.7)

Posted on Feb 6, 2007 2:45 PM

Reply

Answer 1

Feb 6, 2007 3:08 PM in response to DiFFeReN7

I just ran a test to confirm that the FTP that comes bundled with Mac OS X doesn't choke on dot files, either getting or putting.

Reply

Answer 2

etresoft

Level 9

57,692 points

Feb 6, 2007 3:34 PM in response to DiFFeReN7

Why do you want to upload these files? Most people want to trash them.

They consist of the old resource fork and Finder flags. For almost all modern MacOS X applications, you can remove them and nobody will know the difference.

You shouldn't even be seeing these files on Mac. On the Mac HFS+ file system, they don't really exist. They are actually in the Finder and resource forks. On other file systems, the Mac uses these ._ files to fake out resource and Finder data. But only other systems can see those files. The Mac itself cannot access them as separate files. Perhaps that is what is cause you grief.

Reply

Answer 3

DiFFeReN7 Author

Level 1

0 points

Feb 6, 2007 7:08 PM in response to DiFFeReN7

---------------------------------------------------------
I just ran a test to confirm that the FTP that comes bundled with Mac OS X doesn't choke on dot files, either getting or putting.
---------------------------------------------------------

On a Mac, I've tried CuteFTP, a free Mac FTP client and now the FTP client built into Adobe Lightroom.

On a PC, I've tried CuteFTP, FlashFXP, FileZilla, and maybe another.

On every single one I had to filter out those files. Unfortunately, Lightroom does not have that capability.

---------------------------------------------------------
Why do you want to upload these files? Most people want to trash them.
---------------------------------------------------------

I do NOT want these files.

---------------------------------------------------------
You shouldn't even be seeing these files on Mac.
---------------------------------------------------------

Yes, because Macs are not set to view hidden files. In unix, a period . before a filename makes it hidden.
If I wanted to see them I would use the TinkerTool to display them.

Back to my response above, these files do not like to be uploaded to my Linux webserver. If I try to upload, for example, all the pictures in one folder, it will upload the first one and then get stuck on the ._ file with the same name. This happens if I upload from a Mac or a PC. On every FTP client with filtering capabilities, I can make it work, but otherwise I can't.

Thanks for your help,
DiFFeReN7

Reply

Answer 4

etresoft

Level 9

57,692 points

Feb 7, 2007 7:10 AM in response to DiFFeReN7

On a Mac, I've tried CuteFTP, a free Mac FTP client
and now the FTP client built into Adobe Lightroom.

On a PC, I've tried CuteFTP, FlashFXP, FileZilla, and
maybe another.

On every single one I had to filter out those files.
Unfortunately, Lightroom does not have that
capability.

I typically use ftp or sftp on the Mac and the same tools (via Cygwin) on the PC. There is also a nice open-source GUI for the Mac called Cyberduck.

Still, I don't really understand your problem. I haven't had any such problems on a Mac since MacOS X.

Yes, because Macs are not set to view hidden files.
In unix, a period . before a filename makes it
hidden.
If I wanted to see them I would use the TinkerTool to
display them.

No. On a Mac, these ._ files simply do not exist. They are part of the HFS+ file system. You still have a few "traditionally hidden" files like ".DS_Store" and ".Trashes" but the "._" files are different beasts altogether.

The only time you will ever notice these files is if you use access a non-Mac server such as Samba, WebDAV, or NFS on your Mac. Then, your Mac will try to "pretend" it really has an HFS+ file ssytem and create all those "._" files. All the other operating systems will be able to see them and their users will probably complain about Mac users messing up the servers. On a Mac, from the Finder, they will be hidden. On a Mac, using the terminal, you will be able to see them.

These files might also appear when you create a Zip or Tar archive on your Mac. In these situations, the Mac tries to archive "all" the information and will create the "._" inside the Zip or Tar file. I have an older version of Tar that I keep around so that it won't do this.

Are you trying to upload to an FTP server on a Mac? I have to tell you, I have never experienced any sort of problem like this. What you describe doesn't make any sense. You also say that it chokes on "._" files from you upload from a PC. Those "._" shouldn't exist on a PC. I'm really confused.

Perhaps you should try Cyberduck or sftp.

Reply

Answer 5

DiFFeReN7 Author

Level 1

0 points

Feb 7, 2007 7:16 PM in response to etresoft

-------------------------------------------------------------
I typically use ftp or sftp on the Mac and the same tools (via Cygwin) on the PC. There is also a nice open-source GUI for the Mac called Cyberduck.
-------------------------------------------------------------

I have tried Cyberduck.
I'm eliminate reliance on a third party FTP application while Adobe Lightroom has that capability built in. That is a key benefit that justified using Adobe Lightroom instead of using Adobe bridge plus a third party FTP client; it saves me lots of time.

-------------------------------------------------------------
Still, I don't really understand your problem. I haven't had any such problems on a Mac since MacOS X.
-------------------------------------------------------------

For me, the problem has always existed on Mac OS X (recent) systems, on both PPC and Intel. It first became apparent when using a Windows machine as a file server. The Windows machine was set to view hidden files, so they were obvious, and then I discovered the capability of show these hidden files on Macs via TinkerTool. That being said, these hidden files exist on both the Windows computer and on Macs.

On a Mac, these ._ files simply do not exist.

There is one ._ for each file created/modified.

Every time I try to upload, for example, pictures in a directory, on both a Mac and PC (even if they are setup to not make the hidden files visible) the transfer either fails on the first file, or uploads the image and then fails on the accompanying ._ file.

Are you trying to upload to an FTP server on a Mac?

Both. They both fail. It has to be related to the fact the fact that I'm uploading up a linux/unix webserver.

Those "._" shouldn't exist on a PC. I'm really confused.

They exist on the PC because the PC is used as a network storage device and Macs work off it (create/edit images with photoshop). It's not just images, but anything created by a Mac.

Thanks for your help.

Reply

Answer 6

etresoft

Level 9

57,692 points

Feb 8, 2007 7:26 AM in response to DiFFeReN7

They exist on the PC because the PC is used as a
network storage device and Macs work off it
(create/edit images with photoshop). It's not just
images, but anything created by a Mac.

I think I get it now. All of your files are stored on the network storage device. You are trying to upload from that network storage device to a web server and are having problems due to the "._" files.

On the Mac's native filesystem, HFS+, these "._" files really don't exist. They are created on any "foreign" file system such as a network storage device. They could also exist if you are running your Mac from a non-HFS+ file system like UFS, but that is really rare.

So, to be clear. Those "._" only "exist" on the network storage device. Windows can see them without too much trouble. The Mac is designed to "integrate" them automatically, so you have to use TinkerTool. You should also be able to see them if you used the terminal.

I would suggest trying to upload files using sftp from the terminal. You should be using secure ftp anyway. It doesn't look like you are saving any time trying to use Lightroom. Or maybe get rid of the network storage device and use a big firewire hard drive.

Reply

Answer 7

Jun T.

Level 4

2,191 points

Feb 8, 2007 9:37 AM in response to DiFFeReN7

I'm wondering if there is an operating system tweak I can do.

I think there is no such options/settings.

I am trying to use the FTP client built into Adobe Lightroom, and it appears to be failing for the same reason, but I don't have any options to set that will fix it.

You mean the built in client has no option to exclude the ._xxx files from upload? Then I think you must ask Adobe to add the option to Lightroom, and use a stand alone ftp client until they do so.

Or you may work only with Macs (no Windows) or vise versa...

PowerMacG4, PowerBookG4, iMac(C2D) Mac OS X (10.4.8)

Reply

Answer 8

Feb 8, 2007 4:45 PM in response to Jun T.

If I use the builtin ftp that's available in Terminal mode and I "mput *", I don't upload the dot files. If I do want to upload the dot files I "mput .*". So, what's the problem?

Reply