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Level 4

1,015 points

How to set-up a DUAL BAND wireless network.

Lots of people are reporting problems caused by replacing an existing wireless network with the new Airport Extreme 802.11n base station.

* Xbox360 compatibility.
* Airtunes issues
* 802.11n slowed down by 802.11g devices

One workaround is to set-up a dual-band network. Your old 802.11g base station looks after the older "g" devices. And the new Airport Extreme looks after the 802.11n devices.

There are a number of benefits to this solution.
* Everything that did work, carries on working. No reconfiguring needed.
* Everything works at its fastest possible speed. You can use the full 270Mb 5Ghz band for n devices.
* 802.11g traffic does not interfere with 802.11n traffic at all.
* It's easy to set up.

The downside is
* There are two boxes. I want one.

This is the diagram (again)

Note that in this configuration, the new Airport Extreme base station is set-up in Bridging Mode.

Glyn

Mac Pro + Powerbook G4 + Intel Mac Mini + iMac G3, Mac OS X (10.4.8)

Posted on Feb 11, 2007 2:16 PM

165 replies

pmeier

Level 1

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Feb 13, 2007 3:35 AM in response to Glyn Williams1

Using the diagram posted here, and having a MacBook attached wireless to the "N" side, and having a Express w/Airtunes attached wireless to the "G" side, could the MacBook (N side) play iTunes through the Express (G side)??

Glyn Williams1 Author

Level 4

1,015 points

Feb 13, 2007 4:18 AM in response to pmeier

Yes.
That's the whole point.
The two lobes of the network are connected with an ethernet "backbone".

Feb 13, 2007 4:35 AM in response to Glyn Williams1

Right, well I guess it's all about what you want to do with it, for me the whole point of the speed is to stream and store video from and to the Airdisk to my C2D...

Glyn Williams1 Author

Level 4

1,015 points

Feb 13, 2007 4:47 AM in response to Michael Fuhrmann

All I am saying is that 5Ghz 802.11N is very fast but the Airdisk is currently so slow, it does not benefit from N at all.

Your test is a very valid one - but it reveals the slowness of the Airdisk - not the slowness of the wireless network.

If you want a super-fast networked drive. Buy an old cheap PC. Fill it with hard drives and ethernet it to the Airport Express as a media server. It's about 3-4 times faster.

Feb 13, 2007 4:51 AM in response to Glyn Williams1

You Quote: "Transferring a file from Airdisk is not a good test because N is no faster than G when using the Airdisk."

Wrong, 3:17 vs 2:17.

I suggest you do some real testing instead of referring to theoretical figures.

Micha

Glyn Williams1 Author

Level 4

1,015 points

Feb 13, 2007 5:10 AM in response to Michael Fuhrmann

Neither of your two number refer to an 802.11g link.

I have actually done extensive tests which is why I concluded that the bottleneck is the Airdisk. Even when connected VIA ETHERNET the best speed you'll get from the Airdisk is about 2.3 mB/s and 3.4mB/s reading.

The limiting factor here is the AEBS(n) processor - which is particularly under strain when writing to the air disk.

In optimal conditions an 802.11g-only network link can manage 3.5mB/s. So in tranferring 2-3Mb/s - the radio mode really won't play much of a part - unless there is interference, or encryption going on. Adding encryption to the network may place an additional burden on the processor.

Also you might notice if you repeat each test several times you can see as much as 30% variance in results

Feb 13, 2007 5:33 AM in response to Glyn Williams1

I'm try to determine how to modify your diagram to meet my needs. I have an ethernet WAN in my house and I would like to have the base stations in different rooms. It appears that your diagram has the N base station connected via an ethernet cable to the G Base Sataion. I have a cable modem that feeds the entire house WAN. Can I accomplish the same thing by just pluging the new N base station into the WAN and setting up another network on a different channel? I have two Intel Macs both N capable but need the G network for two HP laptops from work.

Thanks

Mac Pro 2.66 Mac OS X (10.4.7)

Glyn Williams1 Author

Level 4

1,015 points

Feb 13, 2007 5:39 AM in response to Glyn Williams1

Ok did a version of your worst test.
I'm not using AirDisk - because it is too slow for my needs.

Moved a 571Mb file from Mediaserver attached to AE(n)

571 MB / AE(n) 5 Ghz N / Streaming Music to G network / Belkin On / 1:56

It's odd that in your test - just turning on a 802.11g (2.4Ghz) router slows down your 5Ghz link. Something very strange is happening there.

But you are completely right, actual throughput should be measured. The numbers mean nothing.

Glyn Williams1 Author

Level 4

1,015 points

Feb 13, 2007 5:42 AM in response to Norm Gebhard

If you have an existing (working) ethernet network - then you should configure both the 11g and 11n stations to be in bridging mode.
Then everything will see everything else.

The Apple doc - designing 802.11n networks has this described.

Feb 13, 2007 5:56 AM in response to Glyn Williams1

I know, maybe it's because the boxes are so close and the Netopia has some special G Technology (3D Reach which is btw extremely efficient).

So would a NAS ( let's say the RAIDSONIC NAS) have the same type of bottleneck as the AE(n)?

Micha

Glyn Williams1 Author

Level 4

1,015 points

Feb 13, 2007 6:14 AM in response to Michael Fuhrmann

Found this table... (of ethernet connected NAS devices)

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/component/option,com_wrapper/Itemid,153/

Which suggests that the AE(n) is currently near the bottom in terms of speed

Mac Pro + Powerbook G4 + Intel Mac Mini + iMac G3

Alnyden

Level 1

0 points

Feb 13, 2007 7:49 AM in response to Glyn Williams1

When using the "buy an old cheap PC" method, if the drive was an external drive hooked up to the PC via firewire, would that still be faster than airdisk? Also, is there a way to have that drive automount, the way an airdisk can?

Glyn Williams1 Author

Level 4

1,015 points

Feb 13, 2007 8:00 AM in response to Alnyden

The drives on the PC could be Internal / USB or Firewire. Anything would be faster than Airdisk.

You'd need to setup a share on the PC. And create a shortcut to the shared drive on a Mac. Double-clicking on the shortcut will mount the drive. Put the shortcut in Login items - and it will connect automatically. Put the shortcut in "Movies" and the media server will be browse-able from FrontRow

BTW.
Apple may be able to improve the performance of Airdisk with a software update. Don't blame me if they do.

Feb 13, 2007 10:26 AM in response to Glyn Williams1

Glyn -

I like the setup you have described. I will attempt to set it up using an AEBSn and an APEX. I am currently using one of my 3 APEX's to extend my network. Should I leave this in its current configuration, or is this slowing the network down? After I reconfigure my AEBSn, will I have to reconfigure all the APEX's on my network?

Thanks -

Dudley Warner

Glyn Williams1 Author

Level 4

1,015 points

Feb 13, 2007 11:06 AM in response to Dudley Warner

Dudley,
In the diagram, the older 802.11g base station is connected to both the internet (WAN) and on to the new AE(n).
I did it this way for two reasons.
1) This way there is hardly any reconfiguration needed
2) People in the UK with ADSL modem / routers will have to do it this way.

The airport express has just one ethernet port. So you'd have to arrange it differently. You could have the AE(n) as the DHCP server. (Sharing its connection) and you could run a wire to an Airport Express running in Bridge Mode (serving b and g clients).

That might work.

Glyn

How to set-up a DUAL BAND wireless network.