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Help with a spate of Font Problems

I have been having a spate of font problems on my current project and I am looking for some advice. Fonts in general are a corner of Motion 5 that I don't know much about so I am hoping someone can shine a light on it.


For many projects that require fonts that are not provided in MacOS, I use Font Squirrel to obtain free fonts- any font with an SIL free license. These fonts come in either ttf or otf format. I always exit Motion 5 before installing the fonts into my Font Book and then restart Motion, and I load a copy of the same font that I installed into Fxfactory. There has never been a problem from this process until recently, suddenly, many of the fonts that I have installed and loaded into FxFactory fail in two specific ways


1: The font works normally on my system but defaults to Helvetica on any other users system - despite the font being loaded correctly to FxFactory, and the font appearing in the other users font selection menu - this is especially so for Bebas Neue.


2: The font on my own system comes up randomly as gibberish, or with a tracking error that pulls al the text into the same space - or, ..not at all.


For each and every font that is misbehaving I have uninstalled and reinstalled- validated and checked for duplicates - and the problems persist.


I read that one possible cause of the problem is that one user might aleady have a copy of the font installed but in an alternate format .to the otf..ttf...etc.


I am wondering what possible steps I can take, if any, to get these fonts working reliably with in Motion and the FCPX .moti templates.


I'm also wondering if this is a Mohave related issue - as these problems only started after I updated to Mohave from High Sierra.


Thanks.

iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, Late 2015), macOS Sierra (10.12), 8gig ram, amd R9 M390, core 1%

Posted on Oct 23, 2018 5:08 PM

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Question marked as Best answer

I have no problems with Alex Brush or Copse which I have installed. I don't have Almendra or Kamera. Almendra is one of the Google fonts so I'm pretty sure its been vetted. Bebas Neue is one of the provided fonts in Motion AND Final Cut Pro X (https://fcpxtemplates.com/fonts-inside-final-cut-pro-x/) so everybody who has a copy of either one of these apps has it available for use inside Motion and/or FCPX. To make it useful system wide, follow the instructions on the linked page. You can install *copies* of these fonts in Font Book for system-wide use but you *must* leave the originals installed in Motion and FCPX. There will be no conflicts.


There MAY be conflict if you try to install Bebas Neue downloaded from another online resource. There are several available to get it from and that does NOT guarantee its the *same* version Apple used for Motion/FCPX. Font Book would have allowed you to install the font without reporting a duplicate conflict. [Resource fonts do not show up in Font Book.]


I recommend uninstalling Bebas Neue from Font Book, then digging out a copy from Motion and installing *that version* into Font Book for system-wide use so you will have the exact same version installed. If you do not need Bebas Neue for any other application then don't bother doing this — just remove it from Font Book. You can be assured that this font *IS* available to all users of Final Cut Pro X (unless Apple has different versions for different countries, but all I know about it is that Apple has different language translations for menus and such for the base application.) I design a lot of my templates with the "FCPX collection" set of fonts only and letting the end user choose any font *they* have installed once they apply the template to the storyline. This ensures that the template will function properly when first applied.

You cannot depend on what any given end user may or may not have installed on their systems. The "resource fonts" inside FCPX/Motion guarantee that at least those fonts will be available.


FxFactory handling of fonts: you are correct — the FxFactory app makes sure that the fonts will be applied so that the end user doesn't have to manually install the fonts themselves. Whether or not they are literally resource fonts — I don't know — I don't use FxFactory and won't have it installed on my system so I don't really know how they handle this feature (whether or not they even check for duplication errors, etc.). Their product installs software in locations other than the Apple recommended locations. For Motion templates specifically, those templates are installed in Macintosh HD/Library/Application Support/Final Cut Pro/Templates/... So I would hazard a guess that the fonts you supply for FxFactory templates you create would be placed in Macintosh HD/Library/Fonts/... in other words, the system "global" areas and not the Apple recommended User account areas.


If you're having font problems, you might recheck your font collection — you might also want to check what FxFactory has been up to behind the scenes (check your global fonts vs your user fonts — you may have to do more research on how FxFactory installs fonts.)

Posted on Oct 24, 2018 3:42 PM

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Oct 24, 2018 1:18 AM in response to rowie302

1) other users must install the same fonts used in a template in order to function exactly the same. Font Substitution is a cornerstone of Macintosh font management.


2) Some fonts are designed specifically to create a design more than have typographic characters. I've created dozens of them. All of these fonts validate perfectly. Most of them have no character width and when typed in sequence, seem to overwrite the same space — but they're like puzzle pieces that fit together. Poorly designed fonts of this sort will use the A-Za-z character spaces with non-character shapes. There is also the possibility that the fonts were designed for other operating systems (Windows, Linux, etc.) and use a different encoding — there are some encoding variations the Mac simply will not deal with correctly. There is also the possibility that a font is designed for a specific foreign language (to U.S. English) and encoded for a different type of keyboard altogether — these can usually be fixed by changing your keyboard preference.


If you validated the fonts in Font Book, it would have warned you of duplicate fonts (type [.otf, .dfont, .ttc, .ttf etc.] doesn't matter]).


If you are going to be requiring the use of specific fonts in your templates, then you need to direct users to where they can obtain the font (or provide it if you have the license to do so) and direct them to install it which requires restarting Motion or FCPX to use it.


Haven't installed Mojave yet, but I seriously doubt that's the issue.


I have no idea what you're talking about — installing for FxFactory? Why would you do that? Are you making effects for FxFactory?? If so, then that's something completely different and you shouldn't be installing the fonts in Font Book (although, usually, Mac OS differentiates between "resource fonts" and user installed fonts.)


What are the names of the specific fonts you are having issues with?

6 replies
Question marked as Helpful

Oct 24, 2018 1:18 AM in response to rowie302

1) other users must install the same fonts used in a template in order to function exactly the same. Font Substitution is a cornerstone of Macintosh font management.


2) Some fonts are designed specifically to create a design more than have typographic characters. I've created dozens of them. All of these fonts validate perfectly. Most of them have no character width and when typed in sequence, seem to overwrite the same space — but they're like puzzle pieces that fit together. Poorly designed fonts of this sort will use the A-Za-z character spaces with non-character shapes. There is also the possibility that the fonts were designed for other operating systems (Windows, Linux, etc.) and use a different encoding — there are some encoding variations the Mac simply will not deal with correctly. There is also the possibility that a font is designed for a specific foreign language (to U.S. English) and encoded for a different type of keyboard altogether — these can usually be fixed by changing your keyboard preference.


If you validated the fonts in Font Book, it would have warned you of duplicate fonts (type [.otf, .dfont, .ttc, .ttf etc.] doesn't matter]).


If you are going to be requiring the use of specific fonts in your templates, then you need to direct users to where they can obtain the font (or provide it if you have the license to do so) and direct them to install it which requires restarting Motion or FCPX to use it.


Haven't installed Mojave yet, but I seriously doubt that's the issue.


I have no idea what you're talking about — installing for FxFactory? Why would you do that? Are you making effects for FxFactory?? If so, then that's something completely different and you shouldn't be installing the fonts in Font Book (although, usually, Mac OS differentiates between "resource fonts" and user installed fonts.)


What are the names of the specific fonts you are having issues with?

Oct 23, 2018 8:54 PM in response to fox_m

Hi Fox_m,


Thanks again for the in depth advice.


Regarding FxFactory....'installing' was the wrong word... I mean just adding the font ttf/otf. to the assets library of the templates package that is being prepared. As I understand it, fonts that are added to the assets of the template product will run on the end users system directly from the Fxfactory product without having to be directly into Font Book first....(would that be a 'resource font?) I don't know what happens under the hood between macOS and Fxfactory to make that happen, but that's my understanding of it.


I forgot to say in my first post, that for the second kind of problems, where fonts pile into the same space or turn to gibberish, this happens after a while. Quitting Motion and restarting will return the fonts to normal behaviour..but, then, at some point, the problems will start again.


I can see that there are many reasons that a font will not work reliably, and I think the more fonts that are used, the greater the chance of those obstacles happening. But I'm perplexed why fonts i've used without problems previously, such as Bebas and Bebas Neue, suddenly have these problems out of the blue. Hey, thanks again for the insight, it is very helpful.

Question marked as Best answer

Oct 24, 2018 3:42 PM in response to rowie302

I have no problems with Alex Brush or Copse which I have installed. I don't have Almendra or Kamera. Almendra is one of the Google fonts so I'm pretty sure its been vetted. Bebas Neue is one of the provided fonts in Motion AND Final Cut Pro X (https://fcpxtemplates.com/fonts-inside-final-cut-pro-x/) so everybody who has a copy of either one of these apps has it available for use inside Motion and/or FCPX. To make it useful system wide, follow the instructions on the linked page. You can install *copies* of these fonts in Font Book for system-wide use but you *must* leave the originals installed in Motion and FCPX. There will be no conflicts.


There MAY be conflict if you try to install Bebas Neue downloaded from another online resource. There are several available to get it from and that does NOT guarantee its the *same* version Apple used for Motion/FCPX. Font Book would have allowed you to install the font without reporting a duplicate conflict. [Resource fonts do not show up in Font Book.]


I recommend uninstalling Bebas Neue from Font Book, then digging out a copy from Motion and installing *that version* into Font Book for system-wide use so you will have the exact same version installed. If you do not need Bebas Neue for any other application then don't bother doing this — just remove it from Font Book. You can be assured that this font *IS* available to all users of Final Cut Pro X (unless Apple has different versions for different countries, but all I know about it is that Apple has different language translations for menus and such for the base application.) I design a lot of my templates with the "FCPX collection" set of fonts only and letting the end user choose any font *they* have installed once they apply the template to the storyline. This ensures that the template will function properly when first applied.

You cannot depend on what any given end user may or may not have installed on their systems. The "resource fonts" inside FCPX/Motion guarantee that at least those fonts will be available.


FxFactory handling of fonts: you are correct — the FxFactory app makes sure that the fonts will be applied so that the end user doesn't have to manually install the fonts themselves. Whether or not they are literally resource fonts — I don't know — I don't use FxFactory and won't have it installed on my system so I don't really know how they handle this feature (whether or not they even check for duplication errors, etc.). Their product installs software in locations other than the Apple recommended locations. For Motion templates specifically, those templates are installed in Macintosh HD/Library/Application Support/Final Cut Pro/Templates/... So I would hazard a guess that the fonts you supply for FxFactory templates you create would be placed in Macintosh HD/Library/Fonts/... in other words, the system "global" areas and not the Apple recommended User account areas.


If you're having font problems, you might recheck your font collection — you might also want to check what FxFactory has been up to behind the scenes (check your global fonts vs your user fonts — you may have to do more research on how FxFactory installs fonts.)

Oct 25, 2018 1:34 AM in response to fox_m

Hi Fox_M,


Thanks for this insight, I think you have solved this for me. A long long time ago, when I was just starting to learn motion, I was following along with an AE tutorial and trying to work out how to do the same thing in Motion. At that time, there was a link to get a free font 'Bebas Neue' ...and at that time I downloaded it and installed it, and ever since then I always assumed it was in Motion because I had put it there. So, from that action it looks like I contaminated my fonts in Motion and caused a conflict with templates in FCPX. I'm going to follow your instructions from here. Thanks again.

Help with a spate of Font Problems

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