port forwarding

Hello, Iam in need of some advice/help...please. Both my Mother and I have brand new iMac 17" 2GHz Intel Core 2 Duo's. We are unable to ichat in any form, be it text, voice or video. Upon initially coming to these discussion boards in an attempt to find answers I only read a few posts when I found the link to Ralph's website. It was there, after reading the majority of the site, I found the option to contact testers. I successfully connected to an automated test site. After doing so I added a few testers(live ones) to my buddy list and found Defcom available. This was the first time I had ever been in a video chat and was amazed at the clarity and very appreciative that defcom (I have since learned by reading more posts here that his name is Tony; at the time I just referred to him as Sir.) and others have made themselves available as "testers". I now know the problem is not on my end but on my Mother's. We are a 1000 plus miles apart and I feel that I have exhausted with her over the phone all possible obstacles for connecting to ichat other than port forwarding. We have opened the appropriate ports in Mac's firewall, changed quicktimes connection speed, turned the firewall off etc.,etc. So with that said I have obtained from her the makes and model numbers of modems/routers etc. and attempted to locate them on "port forwarding" web site. I read the site and think I understand the premise and even how to go about doing it but none of her modems/routers are listed. Here is how she is set up: 1.6Mbps DSL coming into a Speedstream Ethernet/USB ADSL modem 5200 out to a 3Com officeconnect switch 5 sku#3C16793 out from this two ethernet cables one to the iMac and the other to a Linksys WAP54G Wireless G Access Point. The wireless system is for my step Father's Windows laptop. I downloaded the owners manual for the Linksys, obtained the default ip address, and had my step Father try to access it through his windows internet explorer. He was unsuccessful. When I had him check the router address on the Network pane of sys/pref on the Mac and try that address, we brought up the 3com office connect. When I asked him if he saw anything anywhere in there referring to port forwarding he said, no. Any thoughts/advice/help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks to all who offer so willingly of themselves.

Mac OS X (10.4.8)

Posted on Feb 18, 2007 10:42 AM

Reply
14 replies

Feb 18, 2007 4:31 PM in response to Shmavis

Hi Shmavis,

Welcome to the Apple Discussions


I can not find the same model you list on the Port Forward site.

In this one http://portforward.com/english/routers/port_forwarding/3com/3CRWDR100A-72/iChat. htm
they call Port Forwarding "Virtual Servers"

You will probably find his device is similar.

The ports in the table extracts they show does not list the complete range on this page.

There are the single ports (start and end ports) that should be set
5060 on UDP if it is specified
5190 on TCP and UDP
5220, 5222 and 5223 for Jabber on TCP
5297 and 5353 for Jabber on UDP
5298 on Both for Jabber
5678 on UDP for video invites

Then a group Start 16384 End 16403 on UDP

Note to others.

Sometimes the Port Forwarding is called Virtual Server sometimes Pinholes, sometimes just plain NAT is where it is set up.



User uploaded file

12:34 AM Monday; February 19, 2007

Feb 19, 2007 1:38 PM in response to Ralph-Johns-UK

Hello All,
Thanks for the reply Ralph. I believe the problems on my Mom's end have been narrowed down to the Siemens SpeedStream 5200 modem/router. I had her connect the iMac directly to the 5200 bypassing the 3com and Linksys. Still no luck. I was unable to locate the SpeedStream 5200 on the Port Forwarding site but by chance when searching google for any info on it I came across a link to Port Forwarding's site with a manual for forwarding ports on the 5200. The manual is only a few days old so maybe the link for this router just hasn't been posted on the main page yet. Anyway, after reading it and reading the static ip info I had my mom access the speedstream through the internet browser and we were able to get in there and as I read from the "manual" that I printed from Port Forwarding's site she follwed along and verified that she was seeing what I was telling her she should see(we were just looking) and port forwarding can be done from within the router/modem. But.....I am not looking forward to attemting to do this with her over the phone. Even though it is nicely laid out and does make sense to me, even though I know VERY little about all this, it will be a chore walking my mom through it. I have downloaded and read the user's manual for this modem/router and now wonder if simply turning off the router ability (turning on bridge mode) wouldn't be an easier solution. According to the 5200's manual this appears to be a very easy process, much easier than forwarding ports. So if I were to have her turn on the bridge mode disabling the router function would she still be required to have a static ip for both the iMac and the Windows laptop? I didn't see where the manual said this would be required. And in this situation wouldn't the Linksys then assign ip's through DCHP? Her set up would then be DSL>into 5200 set up as modem only>3com switch>out to iMac and out to Linksys WAP54G. Also I am very confused about the whole NAT thing but do know that both the SpeedStream and the Linksys are Nat enabled and it appears having two devices with Nat is bad? I have also considered having her do away with the 3com switch, set up the 5200 as just a modem connected to the Linksys and run both the iMac and windows laptop on the wireless network. I think the only reason for the 3com switch is because the SpeedStream 5200 only has one ethernet port out. Once agian any thoughts/help/advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Feb 19, 2007 3:37 PM in response to Shmavis

Hi Shmavis,

Re
Thanks for the reply Ralph. I believe the problems on my Mom's end have been narrowed down to the Siemens SpeedStream 5200 modem/router. I had her connect the iMac directly to the 5200 bypassing the 3com and Linksys. Still no luck. I was unable to locate the SpeedStream 5200 on the Port Forwarding site but by chance when searching google for any info on it I came across a link to Port Forwarding's site with a manual for forwarding ports on the 5200. The manual is only a few days old so maybe the link for this router just hasn't been posted on the main page yet. Anyway, after reading it and reading the static ip info I had my mom access the speedstream through the internet browser and we were able to get in there and as I read from the "manual" that I printed from Port Forwarding's site she follwed along and verified that she was seeing what I was telling her she should see(we were just looking) and port forwarding can be done from within the router/modem. But.....I am not looking forward to attemting to do this with her over the phone. Even though it is nicely laid out and does make sense to me, even though I know VERY little about all this, it will be a chore walking my mom through it.


SpeedStream 5200 At Port Forward.com

Same Typo applies as to the last setting. Should be two setting one list Port 5678 as Start and Finish and another one with start as 163845 and End 16403 on UDP.


DO it is Stages. Get her to Open the ports to her Current IP (If this is an IP issued from the SpeedStream to her computer and the 3Com is only a switch)

For this bit this page may help
http://www.ralphjohnsuk.dsl.pipex.com/page4.html#_where

Later you can talk her through the bit about putting the Modem and computer is Static modes (It's called Manually in the drop down on the Mac.
She will need to do something like this on her Mac
http://www.flickr.com/photos/90943061@N00/182655216/ After grabbing some info from her Current "Using DHCP" settings that normally shows at that drop down.

This is a Pic of a Linksys router but you can see at the third Arrow DHCP is turned Off to the LAN
http://www.flickr.com/photos/90943061@N00/92218331/ She will need to find the equivalent setting on her device (possibly in a LAN menu item).

<hr>

Re:
I have downloaded and read the user's manual for this modem/router and now wonder if simply turning off the router ability (turning on bridge mode) wouldn't be an easier solution. According to the 5200's manual this appears to be a very easy process, much easier than forwarding ports. So if I were to have her turn on the bridge mode disabling the router function would she still be required to have a static ip for both the iMac and the Windows laptop? I didn't see where the manual said this would be required. And in this situation wouldn't the Linksys then assign ip's through DCHP? Her set up would then be DSL>into 5200 set up as modem only>3com switch>out to iMac and out to Linksys WAP54G.


Ok If the Speedstream is in Bridge mode and you have two computers the other side of it on Her LAN (Local Network) they will need to be behind a device that routes.

Your earlier info inferred that the 3Com device did but you also described it as a switch.

This fact would need to be cleared up first.

If it does not route then your mothers computer would have to be behind the Linksys as well as your Dad's computer.

This Linksys may have to do the ISP login at that point.
The WAP54G Should have UPnP in the Administration tab
http://www.flickr.com/photos/90943061@N00/145187292/ which need to be Enabled. (It would not need any Port Forwarding or Port Triggering)

Check that the device has UPnP. If it does use that. If not use Port Triggering to allow both computers to log on to AIM if your dad uses AIM at all

The Linksys could then be left doing DHCP.

<hr>

RE: The NAT bit.

At present you mother does not go through the WAP54G so even if the SPeedStream and the Linksys were set up to Port Forward or Port Triggering then she herself would not be going through two lots of NAT

The Problem comes if your Dad uses any of the same ports fro any application he uses.

NAT stands for Network Address Translation.
It's the way the data gets from the ISP/Internet side to the right computer/device on the LAN (You mom's computer, the Linksys and your Dad's computer).

AT present they have two subnets.
Modem to 3com and mother's and Dad's computers
and Linksys to Dad's as a separate part.

If the WAP54G has more that one Ethernet port as well as being wireless and the 3com is just a switch then yes the 3Com can come out of the link.

The problem then might be distance and cabling

Summary.

Best set up will be SpeedStream in Bridge, Linksys in DHCP and UPnP active - with both computers connected to Linksys

Next would be ports opened on Speed stream and later made Static to Linksys Router and iMac. With or without the 3Com
(This presumes the 3Com does not route)

NOTE: With my Linksys it was possible to to give a computer an IP from a Modem but list the Linksys as the Gateway/"router" on the Mac and achieve a Partial Aceess Point only (The Linksys had to route either using DHCP or being Static it could not have this turned Off liek you may have read Airport Base Stations can)

Note 2:
Please can you separate separate bits out when you post.
It's a a personal thing of mine rather than an absolute but I do find it helps.
Other helpers here will also pick and choose which bits they can answer if you separate it out so they can quote back the bits they are dealing with.


I hope this helps.

User uploaded file

11:37 PM Monday; February 19, 2007

Feb 20, 2007 9:29 AM in response to Ralph-Johns-UK

Hello Ralph,

Ralph says: "Best set up will be SpeedStream in Bridge, Linksys in DHCP and UPnP active - with both computers connected to Linksys"

The Linksys has only one Lan port. Here is how I intend to resolve the issue. Please advise whether my thinking is correct. Mom's birthday is right around the corner. I have purchased an airport extreme base station for her and it is in route. Once received I will have her switch the SpeedStream 5200 to bridge mode. The 5200 will then connect to the Airport Extreme's WAN port. We will leave the Airport in it's default configuration (DHCP enabled) other than setting up wireless security. Her iMac will then connect to one of the Airport Extreme's LAN ports. Step Dad will then be able to access wireless network we create for internet as well as printing via his windows xp laptop. Goodbye to 3com switch and LInksys and no need to do port forwarding in the 5200. Many thanks, sir......Neil






Mac OS X (10.4.8)

Feb 20, 2007 4:00 PM in response to Shmavis

Someone may disagree with me but it's not clear to me a DSL broadband line has enough effective bandwidth to deliver the thruput iChat requires for video transmission. Has your mother tested the actually thruput on her broadband line; both upstream and downstream?

See this article for more details:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=301050

Have you tried just an audio connection?

Another thought, I enabled UPnP (per Ralph's suggestion months ago) on my router and did not forward any ports and iChatAV video/audio works great.

Good luck.

Feb 20, 2007 4:11 PM in response to Russa

I did have her test via speedtest.net. Download just shy 1400Kbps and upload of 360Kbps. I feel we were pretty thorough attempting everything other than port forwarding. Changed the oscar login to port 443, quicktime adjustments, included required ports in sys/pref firewall, etc. The fact is that there may be a simple fix on her end but I know next to nothing when it comes to networking but I know a 1000x's more than her. So, being so far apart I feel that the new base station will just be the easiest fix. She found herself needing a new desktop and I tried selling her on a Mac (I've had a G4 Powerbook for about 3 years) for the ease and stability but it was the iChat AV that sold her. Now she is unable to use it. And yes we did attempt audio chat's to no avial.

Feb 20, 2007 4:18 PM in response to Russa

Hi Russa,

I would not disagree with you.

However it will depend where you are in the world and the variation of DSL.

In Most case DSL is actually ADSL and therefore up and download speeds are different.

In my experience a download over 1.5Mbps as was quoted here is likely to have at least a upload of 128K or even 256k.

An 128k upload would be tight for iChat. You get about 80% of what you are sold when testing due to overheads.
iChat will use about 80% of what is left and this would possibly drop you below the 100kbps claimed minimum for iChat Video.

Having said that iChat does not actually give you an error message until the actual connection speed drops below 50kbps
at which point you get an different error message that tells you more precisely than the normal error 22 that you get if Quicktime is not set.
(below 50kbps is actually Dial-up speeds but these are good enough for Audio chats)
There are various speed test sites on this page to check http://www.ralphjohnsuk.dsl.pipex.com/page5.html



Yes, if a device has UPnP I would recommend this over other methods as it gets around most NAT issues and allows DHCP still to be used and allows multiple computers to use the same port, not to mention the ease of set up.

The Airport devices will do NAT but without having to set an IP to point it to. This is useful for ease of set up but has problems if another device is doing DHCP and NAT itself (Airports link these two things) and you want to avoid this if you can or Use Static routing and do away with DHCP where you can.

The Airport devices can be turned into Wireless Access points (the equivalent of bridge mode for modems) and therefore avoid NAT and DHCP that way.

If you have not got the ability to Bridge either of two devices and can not use UPnP in either then setting Static routing is best to have the most Linear LAN you can.

User uploaded file

12:17 AM Wednesday; February 21, 2007

This thread has been closed by the system or the community team. You may vote for any posts you find helpful, or search the Community for additional answers.

port forwarding

Welcome to Apple Support Community
A forum where Apple customers help each other with their products. Get started with your Apple Account.