7 Replies Latest reply: Mar 11, 2007 4:46 PM by aspsa
aspsa Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
I own the MIDI-only version of Logic 2.5, which I had upgraded to 3.0. The 3.0 version of the manual (an addendum) does not address the topic of Meta event values in faders (with the exception of those values applicable to the Bang Fader), and the 2.5 version provides the following information for the Meta event values recognized by Logic (2.5) internally.

49 - Goto Screenset
50 - Goto Song (for song select control of external sequencers)
51 - Goto Marker
52 - Stop playback
100 - Tempo Control
125/124 - Transform: Condition values 1 & 2
127/126 - Transform: Operation values 1 & 2

To satisfy my curiosity, I created a new fader using the "Auto" style, and altered its "Out" definition to "Switch", after which I cabled it over to a Monitor. Next, I changed the fader's output Byte -1- value from 0-127 and executed a fader movement after each alteration to see what appears in the Monitor. By the way, with "Auto" style selected, the fader appeared as a Cable Switcher for Byte -1- values 0-48 and a standard fader for values 49-127. Incidentally, I also defined the fader's "Range" lower & upper limit values as 0 & 1, respectively.

As I stated before, the fader functions as a Cable Switcher when the its output Byte -1- value is set to any number between 0-48, inclusive. Repeatedly clicking on the Cable Switcher alternately selects either the first or second predefined ports (Range 0-1). However, no data is generated as is evidenced by the continued blank Monitor display.

Meta event values 49-52 were given earlier. Of those, value 50 produces the following output in the Monitor.

x 4 n 0

n = some number within the Range values of the fader, presumably allowing up to 128 song selections in an external sequencer, if that sequencer supports that many.

Meta event values 53-127 all produced output in the following format.

M c m n

c = MIDI output channel defined in the fader
m = meta event value 53-127
n = Range value within the lower & upper limits of the fader

I'll have to assume that the Meta event values given at the start of this post are the only ones internally mapped to Logic. Still, given the less than stellar quality of this documentation, I wonder if at least some of the remaining values are also internally assigned to other Logic features.

I'd appreciate your feedback. Thanks.

Cheers...
  • Bee Jay Level 6 Level 6 (10,895 points)
    I'm not sure what your actual question is.

    Are you saying: "Are there more meta events in Logic 2.5/3.0 than are listed in the manual?"

    Just create a meta event in the event list and scroll through the values to see the meta names listed - that's what you have.

    Any meta event values without names/identification are simply unused.
  • aspsa Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Are you saying: "Are there more meta events in Logic 2.5/3.0 than are listed in the manual?"

    Yes, that is what I am asking.

    Just create a meta event in the event list and scroll through the values to see the meta names listed - that's what you have.

    Here are two examples. Meta event #47 is shown as a "Send Byte" (with value 0x00) message, and Meta event #73 is shown as "Arpeggio". Also, there are several Meta events pertaining specifically to the score engine. Case in point; a number of the Meta events are not documented in the manual. What is the intention of Meta event #73? Do you see where I'm going with this?

    I meant to address a second point in my post, and I made this unclear - namely, undocumented Meta events in this version of Logic. When I say "undocumented", I don't mean "not in the manual". Rather, I refer to those Meta events that exist in the software and are not publicly defined. In this case, information would not appear in the event list for those Meta events that are "undocumented". Software applications tend to have "undocumented features" for a number of reasons, not the least of which there is not enough time to safely remove the code without destroying an application prior to its production launch. I doubt Logic is any different. Still, many users tend to discover these undocumented features. Granted, they are "use-at-your-own-risk" features, but that is implicitly understood.

    Cheers...





  • Bee Jay Level 6 Level 6 (10,895 points)
    Meta event #47 is shown as a "Send Byte" (with value 0x00) message


    Many of these were derived from Notator. I can take a trip upstairs and dig out my old Notator and Logic 2 manuals and see what I can dig up if you really need me to. Most of these are documented quite clearly in the current L7 manual anyway:

    #47: It sends a MIDI byte, the value of which is the value byte.

    From the manual:
    "Send Byte to MIDI. This sends the track instrument any byte value (Val) between 0 and 255 ($00-$FF). As a usage example of this Meta Event; if you send 246 as the byte, this is equivalent to a MIDI tuning request message. The display will show “Send Byte $F6”.

    Only use this Meta Event if you know what you’re doing—if you don’t, your sound modules and synths may start to behave very oddly indeed. "

    #73: Arpeggio - these ones are special score symbols, if I remember correctly.

    Download the current L7 reference manual from Apple - meta events are documented in the event list chapter, transform chapter, and for other related functions - just type "META" into the search field. They are all documented.

    As I said, any number which has a function has a text label, and you can usually work out what they do from the name. Any numbers without text labels have no function. As far as I know, there are no extra meta values without names that are secret easter eggs (apart from Meta #129: Write Hit Song - dang! There goes my advantage...

    This has been the case since about 1986 with Creator - there have never been to my knowledge any secret undocumented meta events.

    I'm sure these were in the manual at one time - like I say, I can have a rummage.
  • aspsa Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    As far as I know, there are no extra meta values without names that are secret easter eggs (apart from Meta #129: Write Hit Song - dang! There goes my advantage...

    ...and if you really want to be prolific, precede the fader that generates Meta event #129 with a "Bang 2nd Fader" (a fader object that outputs Meta event #99) and set its Byte -2- value to "0"... lol... sorry, I couldn't resist.

    Download the current L7 reference manual from Apple - meta events are documented in the event list chapter, transform chapter, and for other related functions...

    I will do that. Since you go way back with this software (from the early Notator days), would you know offhand if the Meta events supported in Logic 3.0 carry straight through to Logic 7, or have any of the events been either deprecated or remapped to different Meta event numbers? If the latter is true, are you aware of any links that thoroughly document the Logic 3.0 Meta events? Much appreciated.

    Cheers...





  • Bee Jay Level 6 Level 6 (10,895 points)
    would you know offhand if the Meta events supported in
    Logic 3.0 carry straight through to Logic 7


    Well L7 will still load L3 songs, so I'm reasonably sure they would, but I'd have to check to make sure.

    or have any of the events been either deprecated or remapped to
    different Meta event numbers


    Not that I know of - there's not much point in changing numbers as there's plenty of spare ones anyway. If I get a chance I'll have a nose through my old manuals and see what I can dig up...

    FWIW I very much doubt much will have changed on the MIDI side between 2.5 and 3, as 3 was the big launch of audio, DSP and a PC version, so Emagic would have had their hands full with stuff other than improving the MIDI/sequencer implementation. The easiest thing for me to do is check the manuals between 2.5 and 4.x, and compare to 7.x.

    Is there any specific reason for all this? Or do you just have a meta event compulsive disorder..?
  • aspsa Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    FWIW I very much doubt much will have changed on the MIDI side between 2.5 and 3, as 3...

    I agree. My concern is any Meta event changes that may have occurred between versions 3 and 7. Again, my concern is primarily for documentation purposes. If there have been no changes, then I can rely on the Logic 7 manual for any details it may offer on the matter.

    Is there any specific reason for all this? Or do you just have a meta event compulsive disorder..?

    Lol... (you may be right...)
    2 reasons:
    1. To understand the Environment is to truly understand Logic.
    2. I want to build a diverse Environment toolset that will assist my work in Logic. Having frequently used tools in a concisely designed Environment is a time-saver. Mind you, Key Commands and the like are great and they have their place, but there is nothing like a finely-tuned GUI that provides an intuitive interface for work in Logic.

    If you do get a chance to nose around the ole manuals, I'd appreciate your feedback.

    Cheers...





  • aspsa Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Just checked the Logic 7 reference manual...

    You're right. All the Meta events in Logic 3.0 were carried through to Logic 7. However, Logic 7 does include one additional Meta event not present in Logic 3.0 - Meta event #46 (Assign Alias). Makes sense, since Logic 3.0 does not have an Alias object in the Environment.

    Cheers...