Sorting alphabetically but songs starting with T throw the sort off

The short story is this. I have a 5G iPod video 60 Gb that I use with Windows. Perhaps as a cause of the situation described below, I'm faced with a little weirdness. On my iPod, when you scroll through songs, artists, or whatever, in recent releases of the firmware, you get the letter of the alphabet with which the title starts (e.g. M when it hits Metallica and goes through the M artists, and changes to N or L depending on which way your going when you hit the artist of that letter). So as we know, iTunes and iPods are smart enough to know that when an artist, album, or song begin with the word "The", to not alphabetize it in the T's, but rather by the first letter of the next word. So we go from "Frankenstein" to "The Freshman". So the problem on my iPod is that suddenly it goes in this sequence as I scroll forward: A, T, A, T, B, T, C, D, T, D, T, D, E... The T's are for every time it hits a song starting with "The". So it's putting them in the right place, but those big letters, which I find to be very helpful when scrolling through a lot of music, are acting completely screwy. Has anyone experienced anything like this? I'm perplexed! If you want the details leading up to this, that may or may not have caused this, here they are...

As stated above, I have a 5G iPod video 60 Gb that I use with Windows and have had iPods for a long time. The only thing I really do differently than most people is I store my music on thea network drive, but since I've got it mapped on the computer, the computer itself and iTunes see it as local, and that's never been an issue. Recently I updated to iTunes 7.1, and after installation, when the program opened, everything was gone - music, playlists, etc. Fortunately, I had copies of iTunes Library.itl and iTunes Music Libary.xml that were not too old, and of course, since my music was still physically there, I replaced these files, and got back an older version of a library. Since I had newer music than was reflected in the library, I deleted the songs, and then re-imported them into iTunes. Thankfully, the ID3 tags were preserved (I think), so those modifications were not lost. After a few hours of re-creating the non-smart playlists, everything was better than ever. I still haven't figured out why this happened in the first place.

Dell Insiprion XPS, Windows XP Pro, iTunes 7.1

Posted on Mar 13, 2007 7:38 PM

Reply
14 replies

Mar 14, 2007 5:08 AM in response to PT

Thanks for the reply. The thing is that if there were additional or "invisible" characters, they would have showed up prior to the latest release of iTunes/iPod firmware. Incidentally, when you edit the ID3 tags, all songs beginning with "The" have an automatically populated "Sort Name" field. I've tried to delete the sort name to see what kind of impact it has. It accepts the deletion, but when you click OK, it puts it right back in there. Technically, this is the right thing for it to do. But then the question still remains: why doesn't it sort the way it's supposed to? I'm glad that others have seen this problem, because that means that (hopefully) Apple will resolve it in the future. I can live with it if I know that I just have to wait, but I'd love to find a fix. Thanks to everyone who has responded.

Mar 14, 2007 6:50 AM in response to Eytan R

I've
tried to delete the sort name to see what kind of
impact it has. It accepts the deletion, but when you
click OK, it puts it right back in there.


You don't delete the sort name, you put "The" in front of it.


Technically, this is the right thing for it to do.
But then the question still remains: why doesn't it
sort the way it's supposed to?


It does; this is the way it's supposed to sort.

Mar 14, 2007 2:51 PM in response to Marty J

I'm at work so I have not had a chance to try your suggestion, but I believe (meaning I have no real way to verify this) that in the past, even if the song started with "The", like The Wind Cries Mary, it would show up in the W's and when you scrolled through getting the big letters in the middle of the screen, it would not go W, T, W, but would stay on W until it got to the X's. I suspect if I try your method, it will not do it any more, but all of the songs starting with "The" will end up in the T's. Still, I want to try it as this may be a workaround solution.

Mar 14, 2007 7:13 PM in response to Marty J

Thanks, Marty, and here's an update. I looked and I have many songs that beegin with "The" and yet they sort properly (i.e. by the first letter of the next word), and then I have a whole bunch that are in the right spot, but causing this A,T,A,T,A,B,C,T,C,D... type of problem we've been discussing. So I looked closely at one that's sorting properly, comparing it to one that doesn't. As yet, I've seen no difference. Your way works, but all of the songs, artists or whatever that start with "The" will wind up in the T's, which is technically not correct. If it were, there would be no reason for the sort fields offered in iTunes' ID3 editing abilities. So unfortunately, I think we will all have to wait for a patch or some kind of update in order for the sorting to revert to the way it's supposed to be. Thanks again to all for their input.

Mar 14, 2007 8:20 PM in response to Eytan R

Your way works, but all of the songs,
artists or whatever that start with "The" will wind
up in the T's, which is technically not correct. If
it were, there would be no reason for the sort fields
offered in iTunes' ID3 editing abilities. So
unfortunately, I think we will all have to wait for a
patch or some kind of update in order for the sorting
to revert to the way it's supposed to be. Thanks
again to all for their input.


I'm sorry, I'm a little confused....didn't you want anything that began with "The" to come under "T"?

Mar 14, 2007 8:49 PM in response to Marty J

Ideally, if it starts with The, like "The Crystal..." it would be sorted under C (and currently it gets a sort name of "Crystal..."). That's all fine with me. The only issue, that is perplexing me, because it just started happening within the last few days deals with those letters in the center of your iPod screen as you scroll through large numbers of songs, artists or whatever. Instead of going A,B,C... it's as described in previous threads. I like the sort exactly as it is, but those T's that pop up between the letters in the center of the screen, which refer specifically to some, but not all of my songs beginning with "The" - that is what annoys and puzzles me. Your way is definitely a fix, and I appreciate your help, and certainly mean no offense. But if possible, I'd like my "The ..." songs to sort under the first letter of the next word, rather than under T. So "The Grateful Dead" would be under G, for example. Hope that clarifies things and thanks again for your help.

Mar 16, 2007 9:06 PM in response to Marty J

Well, all's well that ends well. I contacted Apple today to see if they had heard about this, and told them of my trials and tribulations. The guy was great, but said that unfortunately, all he can do is escalate it to the development team. Since we all seem to agree that there's nothing we did to cause this and therefore, Apple is the one that will need to fix it, I thought it was a good idea. He said that it was the first he had personally heard of this sorting problem, but that perhaps someone else already know about it. Anyway, he told me he would contact me if he found out more. Well, I've heard that story many times, so I was surprised to hear back from him less than an hour later. He told me that iTunes 7.1.1 was out today, and that he did not know if that would fix this issue or not, but that I could try it. He assured me he was still escalating the issue. Well I got home a little while ago, and of course, I installed the latest version of iTunes, and synched my iPod. Guess what! It fixed the problem. So for all of you - at least those synching with Windows, just update iTunes and the problem will take care of itself. Best to all of you and thanks for participating in this.

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Sorting alphabetically but songs starting with T throw the sort off

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