+4dBU or -10dBV

the +4 spec looks a little low.
+14 is standard h/r. splitting straws here.
a good hefty transient peak will generally be 4x greater than the average signal.
if RME's spec is right, you've plenty, as the average for DAWs is -18db fs = 0VU.
what analog 0VU represents is another thing.
theorectically there should be no diff between -10 to -10, or +4 to +4.
if you try running +4 into -10 you will get more level but distortion will result.

Sounds like agood idea.

Back when I ran a studio here in CA,I always had at least 12 DI boxes laying around in case artists cam in with non "pro" level gear.Especially guitarists.I remember the face on Jeff Pevar (Crosby Pevar Raymond) when I went through his guitar rig,and matched the operating levels between the gear.Wow was it cleaner than ever!!! And louder.
Another guitarist was Steve Howe,he had a live rig that was also quite the mess.I was afraid he was going to at me alive(he only lets his guitar tech near his stuff,usualy),but when he heard the difference,he was ecstatic! All I did,again, was simply match the operating levels,and added/subtracted DIs in the right places.And made sure there were no ground loops.We got almost 6dB more level to the amps,which made it easier for him to drive the amps with less effort.

And,David,great response,you're right,there is no difference between the two standards,at least sonically.I like to run -10dBV when I can get away with it,but I always use a DI if I have to match one to the other,in either direction.Again,looking at the gear spec and what it wants to "see" makes all the difference.

Cheers

I just wanted to point out that an active DI box has an amplifier in the circuit of the device. Therefore, the signal can become 'colored' depending on the unit. Many DI boxes are also used to sculpt the sound from the instrument. The only DI box I have experience with is the SansAmp ( http://www.bbesound.com/products/DI/DI100x/index.asp) for bass guitars. So I don't enough experience to offer any suggestions concerning guitars or outboard sythns. However, I did find some di boxes that looked promising.

This is a very nice unit.

http://www.radialeng.com/di-jdv.htm

this one also looks nice:

http://www.bbesound.com/products/DI/DI100x/index.asp

Here is a list with a summary of each product:

http://www.muzeekworld.com/recordingproducts-diboxes.htm

good luck.

Dual 1.8Ghz G5 LP7.1.1 RME FF800 HUME 1.0 Mac OS X (10.4.8) RMX Reaktor 5.1.1 Reason 3.0.5 Live 5.0.2 Battery 3.0.1 Recycle 2.1 DFH 1.5.6

"Pro" or +4bDV is balanced because it used three
wires,the two hots being electrically opposed in
phase to each other,plus one ground wire.The device
using this type of wiring only looks at the
DIFFERENCE in voltage between the tow wires,REJECTING
anything else.Therefore it does reject RF better than
an unbalanced wire.This is why it was
invented,in order to reject nearby noise
sources such as radio receivers,etc.

That's a rather convoluted way of explaining it and not entirely accurate. Balanced lines, eg telephone lines, pro audio, etc., reduce noise problems at an input because of common mode rejection. Any interference across the line is common to both conductors in the pair and simply cancels out in the primary windings of the input transformer. The opamp on the secondary is driven differentially and could care less about comparing the difference between the two legs. It just cares about each legs respective potential relative to ground and passes that along to its output.

In a microphone's balanced line, we can achieve a greater noise immunity because of its very low source impedance. Making the line "current driven" gives beter immunity to voltage related interference.

In the case of hooking up a balanced signal to an
unbalanced input,you are overloading the "hot" AND
the gound,because you are feeding the positive part
of the signal "hot+" to an input that is not designed
for that much voltage input,and also feeding the
negative signal "hot-" to the ground.This results in
an automatic overload situation,and extremely
undesirable.

(snip)

Here is a quote from you,which I recommend ALL
posters ignore,because it is inaccurate:

In the studio you will probably find the end result

is just a change of level

when miss-matching -10 and +4

Not only are you not getting the level correct,you
are ALSO getting a frequency loss of the signal
itself.Making for a very bad recording.

Your statements completely disregard line impedance conditions Given the same true RMS conditions on a single ended line and a differential line and equal, or even nearly equal source and load impedance conditions, then power transfer will be the same. Frequency response will not be affected.

So the quote above from the previous post is correct, under most typical circumstances. True, things can go wrong in extreme conditions such as plugging high gain instrument effects boxes into a microphone input. In this case a DI is required to bring the source impedance down to something lower than the input impedance of the load. Without it, yes, frequency response will degrade. This has nothing to do with level. This is about avoiding loading the circuit due to a low load impedance being driven by a high source impedance.

Whatever.....if you want to disregard stuff....go ahead.Its your music not mine that suffers in the end.

Cheers

Whatever.....if you want to disregard stuff....go
ahead.Its your music not mine that suffers in the
end.

I expected your reponse to be a bit more pompous, maybe have a little name-dropping, and perhaps a "I am studying physics at a University". They're far more amusing that way. This one is kinda weak.

Sorry to disappoint,my baby has had me up for three days...so I'm a little out of it.

But not to worry,I'll be fine next week.Stay tuned for more "pompous" responses!!!

Cheers

Sorry to disappoint,my baby has had me up for three
days...so I'm a little out of it.

perhaps you have better things to do with your time than to type away on this forum then?

But not to worry,I'll be fine next week.Stay tuned
for more "pompous" responses!!!

Cheers

Oh good.

Did you ever have any problems with the DI box coloring the sound too much? When I plug my guitar in, I want to hear the guitar, not the DI box. (I am thinking in terms of using the direct guitar with GAP, or Guitar Rig) Do you have any suggestions for this type of setup?

Also, you never really suggested any particular DI boxes for guitar. Could you throw out some suggestions from your experience. I've always been plugging directly into the FF800. From this thread, I am starting to think that a DI box could help the sound.

Yes,

Passive ones are good,like the Countryman.And the Radial JDI.

Active ones...I don't go there.Too much riding on an iffy battery/power going bad.

And I don't recommend tube Di's...as they do color the sound.A very good one though is the REDDI.

Cheers

Ok,

Now that I'm rested...

I won't be helping you in this forum.

Good luck on your recordings...

I don't think I'll loose too much sleep over that.

noeqplease
Please let's keep this most excellent thread going! Both of you are experienced professionals with a wealth of knowledge just begging to be shared for the benefit of everyone! I am also expecting a little one soon and will have only this forum to keep me sane. My point is this-let’s all try to move past the remarks that may provoke anger and stick with professions that keeps our user base strong!