VSL vs East West Platinum using Logic Pro

Santo y Blue Demon VS Dracula y el Hombre Lobo!!!!!!

Now for the ggod part...

Let me know when you get whatever you get,because I'm looking too,just am not that urged to get a orchestra libaray quite yet...

Cheers.

I own VSL's Chamber Strings, Solo Strings, Appasionata Strings (In the Vienna Instrument), and Opus 1 (in EXS format). I also own East West Platinum Orchestra.

For the work I do, I use VSL 98% of the time, and when I do use the EW strings, they're layered with VSL.

East West's "close" samples, still have a sufficient amount of hall reverb in them. This is especially noticeable in the release samples. You can turn down the release samples, but IMO, there goes 50% of the believability factor. It just sounds truncated, and false.

If you are at all interested in small, chamber settings, or quartet settings, EW isn't even a choice. It's to big. But that's also it's strength.

It's so stupid easy to add a decent convolution reverb to VSL using Space Designer, that shouldn't be an issue to you at all.

The issue should be, can I program realistic string arrangements with these libraries. The answer is yes (your own arranging and programming skills not withstanding).

The legato patches in ANY of the VSL libraries make it a no brainer, IMO. And the recording quality of VSL is unparalleled as well. And the Vienna plug-in is really an amazing piece of software. It's far, far superior than the Kontakt player that (currently) comes with EW. By the way, you don't need Kontakt to use EW, it comes with it's own Kontakt "player". You can use samples of EW in Kontakt, if you happen to own Kontakt, but you don't need Kontakt to use EW.

I suppose it comes down to what your needs are. You've settled on two worthy components. But VSL gets my vote as the undisputed top dog. I use it ALL the time, in many, many different musical settings. It's by far the most versatile string library I have.

Hi, I'm a film and game composer and have used both. I prefer the VSL Opus Bundle, which has now been replaced by a Vienna Instruments version, I think.

Most think that East West Platinum is overkill. Three mic positions, and all- bleh. Lots of game composers just use EW Gold. (The guy who scored Tomb Raider- can't recall his name. He used EW Gold and recorded the Mormon Tabernacle Choir for that game score, he told us in March at the GDC.) That score sounds amazing.

East West are just about to announce their stand-alone host called Play, which looks good. You do not need Kontakt; the current EW version comes with a small sample plugin which is VERY cpu hungry, btw.

With VSL you have to adjust the EQ for each, and adjust tunning; reverbs can become complex, and other crazy stuff. So it is more work. But you can make it do many different styles, and when you figure out your sound, VSL sounds amazing.
See this thread:

http://www.vi-control.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5961

Most film guys lean more towards VSL b/c it sounds more realistic to natural life-like strings. Where EW already has chorus/tunning/EQ applied to it. More of a commercial sound.

VSL is much better on computer resources that EW- but I haven't tried their new PLAY plugin yet. It may be much better.

I use a dual 2Ghz Powermac G5 with 3GB of ram and I can load an entire orchestra (for my needs) of VSL in the EXS sampler in Logic. About 50-60 tracks.

I can not do the same with the current East West (Kompakt?) plugin. My computer craps out after just a few instances.




Dual 2Ghz Powermac G5 -- 15" Ti Powerbook G4 867Mhz Mac OS X (10.4.9) Logic 7.2.3 Ubuntu PPC

Cool,when I'm ready for an ochestra library,I'll be sure to try the VSL.

Thanks

Yeah...I used both libraries on my system. I wouldn't go with East west simply because of the wetness of the reverbs. I do a lot of film scoring and like the personal feel of VSL. East West sounds too Hollywood for some things.

I'd rather control reverb myself. That point taken if you want a quick fix or something that gives you adecent orchestral sound buy East West...I heard it was on sale due to the announcement of their new plug-in.

With VSL...you're gonna have to figure out how to treat the instruments because they are so dry. (Also finding the appropriate patches) But if you figure out your reverb settings and some EQ tricks it's well worth it. I've fooled quite a few pro's with some demos.

And then there's the non-VSL and non-EW approach... I have EW and don't really like it. Too wet, don't need (or like) all that built-in reverb, as the previous poster mentioned. I much prefer Sonic Implants (Giga conversions to EXS) as a main resource, but not exclusively. In a typical orchestration I'll mix and match various sample libraries, because no one library provides all possible gestures, sound, and choice of densities.

Garritan is really good for some of the woodwind patches. Occasionally I've found the solo strings useful (with copious amounts of EQ to bolster their otherwise anemic sound). Harps are great, celeste is magical. Horns and ensemble strings are virtually useless.

Kirk Hunter is brilliant for horns and strings. Woodwinds have a particularly idiomatic sound that you may or may not like, though I really like his bassoon samples. There's some highly useful percussion, though I wouldn't count on it for Timpani. Gran cassa is pretty good.

Speaking of Timpani, I use a combination of "old" Prosonus samples and my trusty ol' K2000's stock Timpani. I rock the house with them.

Then there are the myriad of other sample libraries I use, including various Peter Siedleczek and Roland libraries.

But a sample library doesn't make you sound good. There's a ton of programming technique involved, as well as a knowledge of orchestration and individual instrumental techniqes. In terms of programming, when using samples from a variety of different libraries as I do, there's a lot of dovetailing going on between patches. I might use one library just to get a flutter-tongue flute sound but another for normal vibrato sustains. Sometimes it's tricky to get the timbres to match, but to a certain extent that's part of the fun of creating the illusion. It's a lot of work, but the payoff can be quite satisfying. Recently, a high-profile client was planning on sweetening one of my more complex orchestrations with live instruments, but at the end of the day they decided against it, saying that there was nothing to improve on in terms of realism! But to get to the point where I can accomplish that kind of realism has come at the end of many many years of hard work.

Anyway, back to the question... any all-in-one library will serve you well (technique notwithstanding) to get started with. You need to audition these libraries if possible before committing and seeing if you feel comfortable playing them. But don't get trapped into the idea that any one library -- no matter how extensive or expensive -- is the only one you'll ever need. And don't be afraid to mix and match libraries. There are no rules.

... But don't get trapped into the idea that any one library -- no matter how extensive or expensive -- is the only one you'll ever need. And don't be afraid to mix and match libraries. There are no rules.

Let me reiterate IS's statement there.

In my initial post, I kept my discussion to the two libraries you mentioned. And I told you which of the two saw the most use in my studio.

What I didn't tell you, was as much as I love VSL's stuff, and use it, other libraries are constantly used WITH it.

Mocking up realistic orchestrations takes years of experience, learned through trial and error, etc... You quickly learn though, that what you hear in your mind, isn't always realized by a sample that has the correct "name" attached to it.

In the real world, you may find that a sample that was designed to do something else, works amazingly well in your illusion. Or 30% of this sample, layered with 60 % of this sample, sounds exactly like such and such.

I know this is all kind of vague, but welcome to the world of orchestral samples.

As great as VSL is, it really shines when other libraries are used with it, IMO.

And, like IS mentioned, do check out Sonivox strings (which used to be Sonic Implants). While a little older than VSL or EW, it's still the main "go to" library for many composers. I have yet to hear anything negative about it. And, it's available in the EXS format.

Hi iS and anyone

I visited Sonic Implants. Pretty cool. Quick question. If I download some of their downloadable smaller packages do you know if there would be a problem converting and importing in to the EXS? Also ... I am on Intel ... not sure if that would matter.

I wanted to try out the Symphonic Strings X-Fi - Macintosh Download. It mentions that it is a Soundfont package and the file has an extention M.SIT??

Cheers
Dee

I much prefer Sonic Implants (Giga
conversions to EXS) as a main resource, but not
exclusively. In a typical orchestration I'll mix and
match various sample libraries, because no one
library provides all possible gestures, sound, and
choice of densities.

I was wondering what the best way to convert Sonic Implants Giga to exs. I have their Symphonic Strings in giga format and I am having problems converting it to exs24. Specifically, many of the patches are not even close in regards to the tuning. Some of the pitches are as much as 30c off, which is very tedious to correct. iSchwartz, did you have any problems converting giga->exs? And if not, what did you use to convert besides exs24 itself?

sonicg,

I used CDXTRACT to convert from Giga format to EXS. I also did a Giga--->EXS translation using the utility built into EXS. When comparing the two, I found that the "vibe" between the CDXTRACT and EXS translations can be quite different. This has mainly to do with way velocity sensivitivy and some of the ENV2 settings end up being translated. But I can't say that I've experienced tuning difficulties; yes, the odd note here and there that seems a bit wonky, but not as bad as you reported -- 30 cents. Man, that's a lot! I wonder what's going on there...

CDXTRACT is a great little program, although the company doesn't seem very active in updating/bug fixing (I found one minor bug). Still, I like it.