Powerbook G3 Pismo-Bad Logic Board?

Sax,

Welcome to the Discussions.

Although you may have done so, reset the PRAM, then test.

Try booting the Pismo without the HD installed. It should start to a flashing '?' and should also boot a CD. By removing the HD and booting, you also take a potentially troublesome HD ribbon cable and IDE bus controller on the logic board out of the startup loop.

When you put the HD in an external enclosure, did you try booting the Pismo with it? Or do you have a bootable FireWire drive to test the Pismo? Booting a FireWire HD with the internal HD removed can help isolate the problem.

Make sure the microprocessor card is fully seated. Remove the top mempry module, then press down VERY hard on the right side of the card next to the HD and closest to the palm rest.

See if it will boot into Open Firmware:

Boot into Open Firmware by holding down the 'Command-Option-O-F' keys from a cold start while the chime is being played. You will see a command-line screen...enter these commands:

1. At the Open Firmware prompt, type: reset-nvram
2. Press Return.
3. At the Open Firmware prompt, type: reset-all
4. Press Return.
Example:
0 > reset-nvram
Press Return
0 > reset-all
Press Return

The reset-all command should cause the computer to restart. If this occurs, you have successfully reset the Open Firmware settings.

Sax,

I Googled for "ata4/1/2" and came up with this interesting doc:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=58706

I would imagine it is the same issue but I just don't know; the Pismo is not mentioned, but you are probably running a very similar AHT v1.0 and this issue seems more than just a coincidence.

I don't know how you test for the problem you are experiencing. Since the HD appears to operate normally in an external enclosure, that leaves the HD ribbon cable and the logic board as potential culprits. All I can suggest is to examine the ribbon cable very carefully, checking each trace visually. However, even a positive visual inspection does not necessarily mean the cable is good.

I know of no test for the IDE controller on the logic board for us poor users, and a bad controller means a replacement logic board.

If you wanted to try another HD ribbon cable, used cables are not very expensive:
http://www.ifixit.com/PowerBook-Parts/G3-Pismo-Hard-Drive-Bracket/IF106-001

I have read on these forums of failures of both the ribbon cable and logic board on the Pismo, so it is a crapshoot picking the offender.

jpl:

Thanks for posting the results of your Google search. Does that suggest that the results from the AHT test might be spurious, possible caused by the fact that no internal HDD was installed at the time?

Going back to my experience of a AHT result of a failed logic board on my daughter's Pismo, in that case the screen was completely black even though the computer was running. This is consistent with what I have read of G3 iBooks (very prone to logic board failure) and 12" G4 PBs, similarly prone. However, although I bought a logic board, I never got around to replacing it, because after some work with TechTool Pro and Disk Warrior the computer kept working normally. So I still have a logic board, that, hopefully, I will never need to use, but if it serves as a magical charm to keep the evil spirits away from the logic board, it might be worth it.

Reading through this thread, I am not convinced that there is a logic board problem, although that is always a possibility. I think that the OP's decision to replace the HDD ribbon cable is a good place to start. I will stay tuned.

Cheers.

cornelius

Message was edited by: cornelius

Cornelius,

I, like you, would put no faith in the AHT test results since it mimics exactly the problem described in the tech article. I am guessing the updated AHT allows a successful test to be run without the HD and also eliminates the false report.

As I mentioned earlier, I have no idea whether the logic board or ribbon cable is at fault. Since his Pismo will not start with the HD installed, the only way a user can test for the problem is by replacing parts. I also do not know if a "good" AHT would test the IDE controller without an HD connected. Fortunately, he knows his HD is OK; the ribbon cable is fairly inexpensive to replace and test; if still no go, it's a 'logical' step to replace the logic board.

jpl:

Thanks for the response. My intention was to get a clear a picture of the present situation as I can. You have helped.

cornelius

Saxinthecity:

Thanks for the update. Sorry the repalacement of the ribbon cable has not remedied the situation. jpl is much more knowledgeable about this, but I will give my assessment, admittedly not expert.

We know that you internal HDD works well when placed in a FW enclosure.
We know that the computer will not boot from the optical drive with the HDD in place.
We know that the computer will boot from the optical drive with the internal HDD removed.
We know that the computer boots from the FW HDD without a problem.
We know that AHT gives a failed logic board message with either the HDD or the cable or both in place.
Putting all this together, I believe that the logic board failure is related to the HDD.
Since the HDD is sound, and the cable is new, it would seem that the logic board failure is likely due to whatever driver/controller (IDE conrtoller?) interfaces the HDD to the logic board.
If that cannot be tested separately, my inexpert troubleshooting suggests that the entire logic board needs to be replaced.
I would wait until jpl weighs in on this diagnosis.

Good luck.

cornelius

Message was edited by: cornelius

Sax,

The HD ribbon cable would have been such an easy fix, but unfortunately I think the logic board is now the only fix as Cornelius has suggested.

Please keep in mind that the logic board contains multiple components and you can have a failure of one component without affecting the rest of the board. The FireWire bus is controlled by the PCI bus bridge whereas the internal HD is controlled by a separate I/O device controller. Even a partial failure of the I/O device controller is possible as evidenced by still having functionality of the optical drive. See this link: go to Architecture > Block Diagram and Buses > Block Diagram.

http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Hardware/DeveloperNotes/MacintoshCPUs-G3/PowerBook/index.html

You can tear down the Pismo to replace the logic board or continue the inconvenient use of the FireWire HD. There is another alternative, however; buy an expansion bay HD enclosure and install your current HD in the enclosure. Since the optical drive interface still works, the media bay HD should have no problem. However, I would check with MCE first.

MCE Expansion bay kit

Message was edited by: jpl

Message edited by: Host

Sax:

If your situation I would replace the logic board. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I was ready to do that with my daughter's Pismo, then it decided to behave. You will find very clear, explicit directions at ifixit or at PowerBook Tech. However, even though the Pismo is one of Apple's easiest 'Books to access the innards, you have to go almost to the bottom of the pile for this one. I suggest you print out and review the linked procedure, then decide if you feel comfortable going that route. You can also check out DT & T Computer Service if you feel uncomfortable attempting this yourself. Costwise, jpl's work-around might be more cost-effective.

Please keep posted as to what's up.

Good luck.

cornelius

Message was edited by: cornelius

jpl:

The expansion bay kit is an fascinating concept. I am working with someone in the G4 12" PB Forum who is wondering about the feasibility of replacing his non-functional optical drive with a second internal HDD. Are you aware of any resources available for the G4 12" PB?

Thanks.

cornelius

Cornelius,

I am unaware of any such swap in the new, thin form-factor powerbooks; you might try a Google search.

This is the beauty of the G3s...multiple uses for those media bays...but time marches on.