Workflow - DVCAM capture vs. HDV Capture

Question

Level 1

2 points

Workflow - DVCAM capture vs. HDV Capture

Hello,

I have a massive documentary project. Almost 100 tapes (each about 1 hr. long) shot on HDV (Sony's HVR Z1U) NTSC format. These need to be edited down to 8 documentaries.

WRT workflow, should I capture on FCP (FCP 5.1) in downconverted (on the fly on recorder Sony HVR M25U)squeezed DV NTSC format (720x480) or should I capture in the HDV format. Final output is in HDV and may also be in DV SP.

Unless I am doing something wrong, both HDV clips and DVCAM clips that I have captured (using Easy Setup in both cases) have the same file size (approximately 13.45GB per hour of footage). The 100 plus hours would then require 1,345 GB (I have only 400GB). Shouldn't DV clips be much smaller, or am I missing something?

Therefore, first question - Is there a way to capture DVCAM footage and have a smaller file size without incurring substantial time or quality loss?

Second question - If both HDV and DV file sizes are the same (and that is the way it is), is there a downside to capturing and editing the whole project in HDV (i'd have to purchase additional hard drive space)?

Third question - Is there another way to capture and have a lower quality/smaller file for offline editing?

Sorry about the lengthy post - but please help.

Mac G5 Mac OS X (10.4.9) 3.5GB Memory, 200GB available HD, external 100GB HD, 1.8GHz processor

Posted on May 18, 2007 2:34 AM

Reply

Answer 1

Shane Ross

Level 8

43,110 points

May 18, 2007 2:55 AM in response to FCPNovice

Welcome to the forums.

No, you aren't missing anything. HDV and DVCAM have the same file size. This is because HDV is HIGHLY compressed. Both formats are recorded on the same sort of tape...miniDV sized. And since tapes capture footage digitally, as data, it stands to reason that they have the same data rate...and they do. So capturing HDv as DV gets you nothing...just capture HDV native.

Get more drives. You can capture your footage at a lower quality (offline RT) and do the offline/online workflow, but the potential headaches that can cause are well worth avoiding, if you can. Drives are cheap.

Drawback to editing HDV native? That format is processor intensive...not easy to work with. Many people opt to capture it as DVCPRO HD (requires a capture card), but that also increases file sizes. Rendering and conforming HDV takes a long time.

Again, OFFLINE RT is a low res option for capturing footage. Drawback is that you cannot view this on an external production monitor. And Onlining (racapturing at full res) with FCP isn't perfect...requires adjustments. I still recommend more drives.

Shane
User uploaded file

Reply

Answer 2

FCPNovice Author

Level 1

2 points

May 18, 2007 5:43 AM in response to Shane Ross

Thank you for your quick reply. Answers most of my questions, but raises a smaller one...

The offline RT method, does it need a capture card or can I work through the firewire and i-link set up I already have? And what will the set up in FCP be? I will probably not use this method, just capture some tapes (that are not as likely to be used) as a reference in this manner.

And to other users and experts (like yourself) out there, I am still interested in hearing of potential pitfalls to HDV native editing. I will probably go ahead with this method (HDV) and get additional drives, but it would be useful to be apprised of likely problems :))

On a separate note, I went through 2 days of headaches trying to get FCP to see the DVCAM (same HVRZ1U downconverted)- it could see the HDV but not DVCAM until I finally learnt (from another forum) that the problem might be that I installed QT 7.1.6 at the same time as my other updates (including OS X). So I reintalled 10.4.0, then separately QT 7.1.5 and then separately 10.4.9 and now the DVCAM works (DV NTSC Easy Setup) - but now the HDV does not work (error about missing hardware or codecs). I will install QT 7.1.6 and update the rest of my files on Apple download but any thoughts on this would be welcome.

Thank you once again.

Mac G5 Mac OS X (10.4.9) 3.5GB Memory, 560GB, FCP 5.1, QT 7.1.5

Reply

Answer 3

Z1User

Level 4

1,085 points

May 18, 2007 8:18 AM in response to FCPNovice

I use a Kona LHe capture card for capturing HDV to transcode into an intermediate codec like DVC PRO HD to stay away from native HDV editing issues. I believe HDV is best used as an acquisition tool for shooting cost effective low end HD. I have the V1U and this unit has an HDMI port that is a digital uncompressed 1920x1080i signal that I convert using the Convergent Design MI Connect that converts to HD-SDI into the Kona LHe. At that point I have the best possible all digital signal uncompressed from the product that recorded it. In either FC or with the AJA VTR Xchange capture program I can choose the codec I need for the project. Another great feature of the CD MI is that with it's software I can force the box to change the signal from 1080i to 720p and 720x486 SD choosing to letterbox or edge crop. That was great for a SD project last week. The second use of my Kona is for monitoring and that is something you will want and need to view HDV native. Because of the Long Gop compression format you can't run the signal via firewire back threw your camera as you could with DV to send out to a monitor. As for the Z1 you must learn how to correctly setup for either HDV or DV from the VTR Menu setting without firewire being connected. Setting up FC for easy HDV should help you on that end but know once you do FC looks for the device right then and if it's not connected you need to refresh A/V devices and set external video to all frames.
One thing is for sure; if it isn’t broke don't fix it. Use caution when updating and read the boards before you do.
Good Luck
Z1&V1user

Reply

Answer 4

FCPNovice Author

Level 1

2 points

May 18, 2007 11:39 AM in response to Z1User

Thanks for the tip.

Setting up the VTR (either the recorder or on the ZI) is not a problem...and I do make changes with the i-link disconnected. I am more concerned about issues post capture.

Thanks...I will keep the Kona LHe capture in mind.

Reply