Sys 8.0 crashes with "Type 10" errors w/ 68LC040 CPU. Help?

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Sys 8.0 crashes with "Type 10" errors w/ 68LC040 CPU. Help?

Can someone please point me to some docs/site or thread where I can get some help on how to track down what extensions (or other parts of the system) are causing these annoying "Type 10" crashes? I can't use OS 8.0 on my old skool Macs because of them 😟

I tried booting with all extensions off, and that takes me to the Finder which happens to have an open folder, which then proceeds to barf with the same error. On another case, where the Finder didn't have any open folders, as soon as I open the boot volume/drive or I go to the "About this Macintosh", I get the crash. Just about anything I click does it 😟

Thanks

Macbook/Mac Mini (PPC)/oc'ed G3 Macs/iMac DV oc'ed to 500Mhz/IIci/Quadra/etc Other OS

Macbook/Mac Mini (PPC)/G3 Macs/iMac DV oc'ed to 500Mhz/IIci/etc, Mac OS 8.6 or Earlier, SMC: 1.13f3 EFI/Boot ROM: MB21.00A5.B00

Posted on May 21, 2007 4:08 AM

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Answer 1

May 21, 2007 6:07 AM in response to Antonis

This article describes the error :-
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=55743
If you go to Apple Support Search and enter 'Type 10 error' there are a few other articles which may help. Check the box to include archived articles :-
http://search.info.apple.com/

5200, 5500, 6360, 7600, BWG3/450 OS 7.5.1, 8.1, 8.6, 9.2, X.3

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Answer 2

May 21, 2007 10:47 AM in response to Antonis

Sometimes those errors come up because you executed bad instructions in memory. How they got there is the essence of the problem.

If you can boot from a Disk Tools diskette or a System/Install CD without a problem, it tends to implicate your Hard drive and the software on it.

If you still get errors with these "know good" system images, it may be time to go over your Hardware and remove and re-seat anything and everything with a connector or slot, especially your memory modules.

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Answer 3

May 21, 2007 12:07 PM in response to Antonis

Antonis,

Which model of Mac are you talking about? Grant's comment about cleaning contacts has an increasing level of importance based on a progression of Mac models from your listed IIci to later AIO Performa models. The 040LC chip was common in all in one Macs that need to be 'rebuilt' or reassembled to clean up contacts.

I presume that with the quadra chip you are in a machine that does not require four matching RAM chips. Some models required a pair of chips. Can you remove one or more chips and test for chip errors?

I have one machine with a bad chip. If I load a game first, the game will encounter a memory error and crash. But, if I load MS Word with a large memory allocation - but do not use that large allotment - and then load a game second, the game will not access the offending chip and play properly.

Knowing what software is having problems also helps. If Finder objecting the the chip, swap location of chips so you are loading a different chip first.

Ji˜m

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Answer 4

Antonis Author

Level 1

20 points

May 21, 2007 3:29 PM in response to Antonis

Thanks for the tips guys.

It's a Centris/Quadra 650 motherboard with an LC040.

To be honest I've not done excrusiating tests on the memory chips, but the typical tests I've done (and these memories were working on other machines such as Suns, which tend to do memory tests at startup, and they all passed), seem to indicate they are OK.

As far as dealing with "chip crawl" issues, I've reseated everything, but will try once again, more consciously this time.

But the main thing that makes me blame the software for the LC barfing is that with a full 68040, everything works fine. Unfortunately I can't use that CPU because it's from another machine and I'd like to keep the LC in this one. Also, booting from anything pre 8.0 works fine with the LC.

From reading around I believe the problem is with F-line instructions, aka FPU instructions which of course aren't supported by the LC. But I don't know how to find out which extensions loaded in the OS require or use FPU. To be honest, now that I think about it, this theory seems suspicious, since I've had the "EM Extension" (Extension Manager) blamed as the reason for a crash when pressing the space-bar during boot up... Perhaps it's the connections or memory. I'll do more testing there.

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Answer 5

May 21, 2007 4:11 PM in response to Antonis

You could try the control panel SoftwareFPU. It's a piece of shareware which emulates a 68040 FPU in software.

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Answer 6

Antonis Author

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20 points

May 21, 2007 5:20 PM in response to Craigwd_2000

You could try the control panel SoftwareFPU. It's a
piece of shareware which emulates a 68040 FPU in
software.

Thanks, but I'm not trying to use any programs that require the FPU. I just want to find them and isolate them, so that I can use the basic system (which as far as I know should work without needing an FPU).

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Answer 7

May 21, 2007 6:00 PM in response to Antonis

I was almost able to run Mac OS 8.1 on my LC 580 with a 68LC040 by installing Mac OS 8.0. I then installed SoftwareFPU which tricked the Mac OS 8.1 Update into installing. I now use Mac OS 7.6.1 with a full 68040 though since Mac OS 8.1 doesn't seem to like the configuration of a LC 580 with a full 68040 since it's not the factory configuration. Some of my software also runs better with the 68040's cache disabled but there's no Cache Switch control panel in Mac OS 8.1 so it's impossible to disable it in that version of the Mac OS.

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Answer 8

May 21, 2007 10:40 PM in response to Craigwd_2000

This page:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=112257

indicates that the Centris will support up to 8.5 so we should not need to play tricks for the CPU to see the software. That is what seems odd about haaving to trick the FPU.

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Answer 9

Antonis Author

Level 1

20 points

May 22, 2007 1:02 AM in response to Appaloosa mac man

This page:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=112257

indicates that the Centris will support up to 8.5 so
we should not need to play tricks for the CPU to see
the software. That is what seems odd about haaving
to trick the FPU.

Yes, exactly inline with my thoughts! And that's why I don't want to trick the OS. Just make it work as it should.

Anyways, I have an update: now I got the "Type 10" error under 7.5.3. It doesn't seem to be the memory, since I removed all the extra RAM but the one on the motherboard and run a RAM checker for an hour or so, and it found no problems. I also added an extra fan to cool things further, so it's not overheating either. I re-seated the ROMs. Nada. When I try to click on the Date & Time control panel, I get the crash as soon as the window appears. When I run Norton Utils, the Disk Doctor works fine, but the Unerase (I think) causes a crash right away. Also Apple Diagnostics causes a crash on launch. This all under 7.5.3. 😟

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Answer 10

May 23, 2007 11:37 AM in response to Antonis

Repeated Type 10 errors can sometimes be "cured" by zapping PRAM. See Mac PRAM, NVRAM, CUDA/PMU & Battery Tutorial

 Cheers, Tom

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Answer 11

May 23, 2007 7:42 PM in response to Appaloosa mac man

The problem stems from the fact that some of Sierra's older adventure games have timers written in SCI scripting language that run throughout the games. Some games like Police Quest IV run too fast with the 68040's cache enabled. In that case disabling the cache with Cache Switch enables me to slow the game down to a more sane playable speed.

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Answer 12

May 24, 2007 6:45 AM in response to Craigwd_2000

Craig,

Thanx for the reminder about Cache Switch. That is good to keep in mind.

Jim

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Answer 13

May 24, 2007 1:35 PM in response to Appaloosa mac man

SoftwareFPU isn't perfect though. It does have limitations. After I updated the LC 580 in it's original configuration running SoftwareFPU as a replacement FPU the Mac OS 8.1 Finder crashed due to a Bad F-Line Instruction which caused my Mac to freeze. It turns out that there is a well documented flaw in early Motorola 68LC040 processors. It prevents the processor from correctly exucting certain F-Line Instructions. Mac OS 8.1 should have popped up a error dialog indicating a Bad F-Line Instruction occurred but it didn't since it wasn't designed to be run in that particular configuration. A flaw in my LC 580's logic board also prevents it from running Mac OS 8.1 reliably. You might just be better off upgrading to a full 68040. Should I order a replacement logic board from OldMacMilt? Will I be able to run Mac OS 8.1 without compatibility issues if I do?

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Answer 14

Antonis Author

Level 1

20 points

May 24, 2007 5:10 PM in response to Texas Mac Man

Thanks for the great link Tom, but unfortunately zapping the PRAMs didn't help 😟 The search continues on...

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Answer 15

May 24, 2007 6:28 PM in response to Appaloosa mac man

That page probably also assumes you have a Power Macintosh Upgrade Card installed too. The same goes for the LC 580's spec's page. From now on I just refer to the Performa 580's spec page since it shows what my Mac is capable of running in its factory configuration (though the 68040 had trouble with Mac OS 8.1 too or it might have been my logic board). According to Apple's spec pages for either the Quadra or Centris 650 both Mac should have shipped from the factory with a full 68040. This leads me to believe you have either a Quadra or Centris 610. It may also be a Quadra 605 too. If you bought this Mac used and it really is a Quadra or Centris 650 I'd ask for a refund since whoever sold it to you cheated you out of getting a full 68040.

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