Photos with same file name although not duplicates

I am experiencing an unusual and annoying scenario where while trying to export an album to a new folder to back it up on an external HD, I am warned of exporting duplicates. In reality, two very different pictures will have the same file name like DSCF0406.JPG. However they are absolutely different, different place, different people etc... this makes the task of exporting absolutely impossible due to the sheer volume of pictures.
Thank you for any help.

macbook pro, Mac OS X (10.4.9), Powerbook G4

Posted on May 29, 2007 5:50 PM

Reply
11 replies

Jul 22, 2007 7:41 PM in response to Aristophanes

Tom

iPhoto is a consumer level application. If you average out the cost of the five apps in the iLife suite, iPhoto costs about $16. In an app of that cost there are going to be limitations.

If the cardinal rule is never to muck with the photo originals and iPhoto database using the Finder, how do we go about renaming the files so there is no duplication

Filenames are irrelevant in iPhoto. The db does not record the pics by filename, but by a different assigned identifier - probably because of the exact danger that you describe. The workaround is to use titles in iPhoto and then use the titles as Filenames on export - the option is in the Export dialogue.

Using the app with two input sources simultaneously is a more likely cause of corruption that duplicate filenames. I don't think the app has the code base to negotiate this comfortably.

But again, I stress, iPhoto is a consumer level app. You might have more joy with the - more expensive - Pro level apps, like Expression: ( http://www.iview-multimedia.com/) or Aperture ( http://www.apple.com/aperture).

Regards

TD

Jul 22, 2007 11:40 PM in response to Yer_Man

Terence, I was an an Oracle programmer for almost 16 years. Consumer application or pro it is simply poor design in any relational system to have the core filename inaccessible to change from within that system. I note that a great deal of the discussions in these forums are precisely centred on that issue, where users mistakenly or under duress resort to the Finder to fix what should be obvious. Name another iLife program that prevents you from changing a filename. I have 5,000 photos but 30,000 tunes in iTunes. I can change those, and iTunes dynamically updates. So does self-created work in GarageBand.

Filenames are NOT irrelevant in iPhoto. This is glib. Subsequent modifications and thumbnails are marked by identifiers to protect the original file itself. You are contradicting yourself. If the file name is irrelevant, then why protect it so vigorously. Why even display it in the Information window? Why is it a major and common search parameter? From the user experience, the File Name IS the original file. It IS their photo. Just like every other application.

No, Apple has decided that this is the one database application they are making that will not allow for dynamic file indexing of file names and it actually makes it more complicated. You cannot seriously be telling me that it is is OK for a program to index two or more files with the same OS level file name and then say that this the underlying code cannot handle it. The killer in db management is data overwrite prevention. The cycling of identical filenames with different contents is a recipe for disaster in the long run. What happens 20 years from now when users have cycled through their cards 200 times and now have dozens of files with the same name? Are we going to have to remember which camera we used for which shot to line it all up retroactively? Canon's used the same indexing system for a few years now and that's part of the the problem, but it is something a conzumer level of app should be on top of. I need to be able to overwrite the Canon filename as part of importing into iPhoto. This is not a pro level issue. It is more likely that the average consumer will cycle through inexpensive P&S cameras and cards more than pros and so encounter this problem. Also, pros will have a work flow using unique identifiers as a default. I'm not eve saying iPhoto should be that customizable. I am simply saying that multiplication of something as basic as a filename is a big problem for ANY database.

Crippling the index makes for far more work than making it work dynamically. The OS does this inherently. Every app that accesses iPhoto is accessing some index that is dynamic. It has to be since you can edit in iPhoto and then grab the recent edit in iWeb through the iLife media pane. Changes in EXIF data are carried through image versioning, even if an outside editor is used. As a database, iPhoto is already very dynamic in that it saves on-the-fly. So this is an indexing issue.

A part of me suspects that Apple has crippled iPhoto to spur sales of Aperture. Also, this system makes it more difficult to export whole libraries to a competing program. But given Apple's long history with databases this is a flaw in the program and it's looking long in the tooth.

What I think is irrelevant is that the cost of iPhoto. I don't need a pro app aimed at those who catalogue photos for post-processing (the entire point of the 2 programs you mentioned). I just need a database that works like a database. If messing with iPhoto files in the Finder is a no-no, then creating this snafu in a database is the same. Again, back to my point that it is never good in any file system—digital or hard copy—to have identically named files. Never.

My camera doesn't do it. So then why does my Mac? Which is the more sophisticated tool?

Tom

iPhoto is a consumer level application. If you
average out the cost of the five apps in the iLife
suite, iPhoto costs about $16. In an app of that cost
there are going to be limitations.

If the cardinal rule is never to muck with the
photo originals and iPhoto database using the Finder,
how do we go about renaming the files so there is no
duplication


Filenames are irrelevant in iPhoto. The db does not
record the pics by filename, but by a different
assigned identifier - probably because of the exact
danger that you describe. The workaround is to use
titles in iPhoto and then use the titles as Filenames
on export - the option is in the Export dialogue.

Using the app with two input sources simultaneously
is a more likely cause of corruption that duplicate
filenames. I don't think the app has the code base to
negotiate this comfortably.

But again, I stress, iPhoto is a consumer level app.
You might have more joy with the - more expensive -
Pro level apps, like Expression:
( http://www.iview-multimedia.com/) or Aperture
( http://www.apple.com/aperture).

Regards

TD

May 29, 2007 8:34 PM in response to dovisim

dovisim:

Welcome to the Apple Discussions. Are those photos from a digital camera? if so does that camers reset the file naming back to XXXX1.jpg whenever you erase the card and start a new shoot? If that's the case then you will have multiple files with the same file name.

To avoid it in the future turn off the option to start the file naming back at 1 after each erasure.

To be able to export the your current files rename them in iPhoto and then export them to the folder using the "Use Title"option.

User uploaded fileDo you Twango?

TIP: For insurance against the iPhoto database corruption that many users have experienced I recommend making a backup copy of the Library6.iPhoto database file and keep it current. If problems crop up where iPhoto suddenly can't see any photos or thinks there are no photos in the library, replacing the working Library6.iPhoto file with the backup will often get the library back. By keeping it current I mean backup after each import and/or any serious editing or work on books, slideshows, calendars, cards, etc. That insures that if a problem pops up and you do need to replace the database file, you'll retain all those efforts. It doesn't take long to make the backup and it's good insurance.
I've written an Automator workflow application (requires Tiger), iPhoto dB File Backup, that will copy the selected Library6.iPhoto file from your iPhoto Library folder to the Pictures folder, replacing any previous version of it. You can download it at Toad's Cellar. Be sure to read the Read Me pdf file.

May 30, 2007 1:01 PM in response to dovisim

What I do before importing into iPhoto is rename them with the date and a brief description like this: 2007-05-13-Moms Day-01.JPG. I use R-Name. If all are from the same date then it's pretty much a single step operation. If you have multiple shoots on the card then it's more difficult. That's why I always upload each shoot immediately and clear the card. The date format is the international format and allows for very easy chronological sorting and searching by file name.

iPhoto can sort by camera model in Smart Albums. That's one way to separate the different sources.

Jul 22, 2007 6:25 PM in response to Old Toad

Ouch!

What I do before importing into iPhoto is rename them
with the date and a brief description like this:
2007-05-13-Moms Day-01.JPG.


From the company that created FileMaker, this is a pretty grievous database un-convention.

I am having the same problem with duplicate file names. I have used multiple cards for different projects, and different cameras. So I can have the same file name for two or more different photos. In fact, I have the same file name for 4 photos in one instance.

I never noticed the matter until I had a corruption and then ebuilt my iPhoto database. I used Duplicate Annihilator and carefully restored my database. Now, that program works well (use it carefully), but the issue is that neither it, nor iPhoto can create a sequence of file names AFTER import. I am now suspecting that the duplicate file names is what caused my corruption because all the files with duplicate names were the only ones with thumbnail problems. The incident occurred when I had two image devices plugged in to the computer, one a camera with a card, and another card in a reader. One of them unmounted itself from the Finder and all next thing I know, 20% of my iPhoto database is "missing". Got it back, but it is not unusual for duplication to cause corruption, so I think I am pointing the finger in the right direction.

I generally do not import directly into iPhoto, preferring to use Image Capture first, and then double-check my time line manually using rolls in iPhoto. So the up-front portion of my work flow is fine. It's the behind-the-scenes file system that bothers me. I don't clear my cards after every upload because I often have to use them in the camera to preview images elsewhere, like a TV or to a client on site.

If the cardinal rule is never to muck with the photo originals and iPhoto database using the Finder, how do we go about renaming the files so there is no duplication? I keep an immaculate iPhoto system with custom names, keywords and comments, and those need to be preserved in any workout. I am concerned I am going to have another corruption because of this. I can modify my work flow using a renamer after Image Caprure, but I still need to rename at least 1,000 photos currently in iPhoto. And those are just the one currently with duplicate file names.

There is just no way a database should allow identical names for different objects. The name should always be different to allow for other metadata to be exactly the same. This is backwards.

Jul 23, 2007 8:12 AM in response to Aristophanes

Tom

My last words on the subject.

I note that a great deal of the discussions in these forums are precisely centred on that issue,

Not in my experience. This one crops up from time to time, but there are far more common issues.

Consumer application or pro it is simply poor design in any relational system to have the core filename inaccessible to change from within that system.

As I said, I, as a User, help other Users with the app. I don't comment on whether this is a good or bad decision on the part of the programmers. It's about working with the app we have, not the one you or I think we should have.

Filenames are NOT irrelevant in iPhoto.

Yes they are.

Import a pic - or a thousand. Edit it in iPhoto or an external editor. Use it in a Slideshow or book. Use in an app that integrates with iPhoto. At no point in that process is the filename an issue. Nowhere. Concerned about the filename issue, then give the pix a title - Summer Holidays 07 - using the Batch Change command and number them sequentially. Want to export a pic, use the File -> Export command and select 'Use Title as File Name' option. iPhoto creates a copy of the pix on the desktop with the title as a filename. Where in that process does the Filename affect the User?

Again, as I stated earlier in this thread, iPhoto is about visual organisation. It's a photo organiser, not a file organiser.

I have been using iPhoto regularly since v2. I have 12k+ pics in iPhoto, organised by Roll, Keywords, Titles et al, and I never use the Filename. Period. I've never needed it.

If you want to use the Filename, then by all means rename the files prior to import. But it's not necessary.

It's quite possible that Apple decided on this format about 10 years ago to spur sales on Aperture which was released a couple of years ago. I've no idea what the development cycle is within Apple.Imagine if Car manufacturers kept ABS braking only for their higher end models?

As to your other comments, they may well be entirely true, and that's why I posted the Feedback link. Best to let the people who can make a difference know your comments.

Regards

TD

Jul 23, 2007 12:35 PM in response to Yer_Man

Terence, here are reasons why filenames are as important to iPhoto:

1) Search. They are the most basic, default search parameter. It is the ONLY static term of reference. If iPhoto is a database (or is it a visual organizer?), then the most basic search criteria is the filename. This is pretty obvious by the fact the the Title default is set to the filename. So, if a person does NOT re-word their titles (and iPhoto does not compel you to), and uses search, filename searching becomes progressively less functional as you have to apply another set of filters. Just because YOU and I do title renaming in iPhoto does not mean that everyone does or should. Also, how about a global search, like with Spotlight? Do you think it a good thing that the same filename can exist in iPhoto's structure and outside and both accessible by the OS search engine? This only encourages Finder intrusion, accidental or otherwise, in iPhoto. iPhoto as a database is not protecting itself from the OS.

2) Export. Funny how iPhoto can change a file name on export to the Title but not from within iPhoto. This is handy if compiling collections for prints and otehr projects. But it speaks volumes to the fact that this is something that iPhoto CAN do, it is just set up not to. It says that iPhoto cannot internally organize itself like every other iLife application, and therefore user expectations need to be curtailed here. Say you export via an iLife access panel, what name does that photo have? So the cross-reference applicability becomes compromised if multiplied file names are now used, and encouraged to do so by iLife integration. iPhoto is part of the iLife system. You're just getting what the camera gave you, not multiplies in iPhoto and (whoops!) now embedded in other apps.

3) File recovery. It seems odd that you are dually saying that "filenames are irrelevant in iPhoto", but yourself and Toad, the most experienced iPhoto users here, actually advocate work flows that rename files from the camera default prior to iPhoto import. This speaks at a base level that it is just good, standard file management and organization (with or without the "visual" component) to have individually named, discrete files. My camera's database is flat and dumb. I'd expect my Mac's to be better. Suppose the BIG ONE hits Palo Alto and there is no more Apple. Suddenly your photos are orphaned into a file structure that even the Finder won't tolerate. At some point systems fail and many users will have to retrieve their data, preferably using a sequential recovery method. Unfortunately, iPhoto has files of different media content with the same name! This is terrible for database recovery. In fact, it is the worst possible scenario. Using a freeware file renamer to pre-organize your photos before iPhoto organizes your photos pretty much tells me that you have not got the ultimate faith in iPhoto's database functionality. You are hedging your bets. In some ways iPhoto is NOT a database, and not an image viewer. You are right, it is a visual organizer. Let's not give it database functionality it does not deserve. It's using the camera's limited file structure.

4) Even advanced cameras are getting better renaming systems in their firmware than iPhoto currently has. After years of using iPhoto, many collections are become so large that multiple file names actually can be a major problem if a rebuild is necessary. I personally ran into that. iPhoto may be reaching the end of its consumer applicability if it still defaults to a file system that uses the camera naming convention as sole reference. That system was set up when the average digital camera could only store a dozen or so photos. It is now inadequate. Like it or not iPhoto is managing files to some extent.

So given the above points which are all pretty major usage scenarios some point (search, export, recovery and camera advvances) it will be necessary for users to have discrete file names for each photo. If a freeware file renamer of only a few hundred kb in size can batch rename files before entry, then there is no reason why iPhoto cannot have this functionality built in to each import cycle. After that who cares if the user want sot rename them or not, especially in a consumer app. It can delete files on a camera as it imports, but cannot rename them? That is just odd.

Just because YOU think that file names are irrelevant in iPhoto does not mean that they are objectively, for other people in different scenarios. Ironically, the simpler one keeps iPhoto the worse this becomes because NOT re-titling forces a default to the camera's minimal file name structure—a poor choice. If file names were truly irrelevant, they would not be visible. As it is they are visible in at least 3 different ways in iPhoto.

I have let Apple know that this is a flaw. That said, I don't think you should be stating as a fact and as advice that file names are irrelevant. That is your opinion in your circumstance, but definitely not a truism in any long-term database management scenario I have ever seen in 2 decades of managing databases. And not a truism for iPhoto.



Tom

My last words on the subject.

I note that a great deal of the discussions in
these forums are precisely centred on that
issue,


Not in my experience. This one crops up from time to
time, but there are far more common issues.

Consumer application or pro it is simply poor
design in any relational system to have the core
filename inaccessible to change from within that
system.


As I said, I, as a User, help other Users with the
app. I don't comment on whether this is a good or bad
decision on the part of the programmers. It's about
working with the app we have, not the one you or I
think we should have.

Filenames are NOT irrelevant in iPhoto.

Yes they are.

Import a pic - or a thousand. Edit it in iPhoto or an
external editor. Use it in a Slideshow or book. Use
in an app that integrates with iPhoto. At no point in
that process is the filename an issue. Nowhere.
Concerned about the filename issue, then give the pix
a title - Summer Holidays 07 - using the Batch
Change command and number them sequentially. Want to
export a pic, use the File -> Export command and
select 'Use Title as File Name' option. iPhoto
creates a copy of the pix on the desktop with the
title as a filename. Where in that process
does the Filename affect the User?

Again, as I stated earlier in this thread, iPhoto is
about visual organisation. It's a photo
organiser, not a file organiser.

I have been using iPhoto regularly since v2. I have
12k+ pics in iPhoto, organised by Roll, Keywords,
Titles et al, and I never use the Filename. Period.
I've never needed it.

If you want to use the Filename, then by all means
rename the files prior to import. But it's not
necessary.

It's quite possible that Apple decided on this format
about 10 years ago to spur sales on Aperture which
was released a couple of years ago. I've no idea what
the development cycle is within Apple.Imagine if Car
manufacturers kept ABS braking only for their higher
end models?

As to your other comments, they may well be entirely
true, and that's why I posted the Feedback link. Best
to let the people who can make a difference know your
comments.

Regards

TD

Jul 24, 2007 7:03 AM in response to dovisim

It would have been really easy for programmers to make iPhoto add a new character to duplicate file names that are being exported to another volume.

The problem is that nobody thought of it in the requirements phase, that's all.

Nobody thought that people with multiple cameras would use iPhoto as well.

If you use multiple cameras, like I do, the problem multiplies greatly.

I'm going to be getting Aperture pretty soon. I wonder if the problem still exists there. We'll see if the pro application makes any difference in this time-consuming problem. 🙂

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Photos with same file name although not duplicates

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