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User profile for user: Da Nam
Da Nam Author
User level: Level 4
1,115 points

safe to burn 16x discs in 8x rated burner?

Hi all, I've posted this in the DVDSP forum with no replies but it also applies to iDVD.

I'm having compatibility issues with a variety of blank media and maybe burning techniques.

I've burned a 65 min project in DVDSP3 using the MPEG-2 90 Min High pre-set and AC3 audio from Compressor and have used 4 different types of blank media but the client reports back that the DVD won't play back all the way through without skipping/freezing in 3 different players.

I tried all the discs in 2 different dvd players including a cheapo £15 one, my Dual G5, Powerbook and a PS2 and they all worked fine.

I've also tried iDVD, best quality with the same result.

Resisting the temptation to give them my own cheapo model, (it's going out to 5 different people, one in Australia.)
I've bought some Taiyo Yuden 16x -R's but the burner in my G5 is a PIONEER DVD-RW DVR-107D which, I believe, burns at 8x speed and on the cover of the dvds it says:

This product is not suitable for use with dvd-r/rw drives which do not comply with the new dvd-r specifications for 16x writing speed. Please check your dvd/rw drive before using this product. Any use with such non-complying drives may result in loss of data and/or malfunction and damage to the drives...

Is there anyone out there using the same burner as me with such 16x media (I've also got some 16x Sony dvds that I daren't try) and is it safe to use these 16x discs?

Would it make a difference, compatibility wise, burning from a disk image?

The project contains a number of complex effects and dissolves, should I print the entire thang to tape and re-import to a new DVDSP project?

Thanks for any help.

Dual 2Gig G5 PowerMac, iMac G4 1.25GHz, iBook G4 1.25GHz, G4 Powerbook FCP HD4.5, Mac OS X (10.3.9)

Posted on Jun 8, 2007 4:41 AM

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User profile for user: Klaus1
Klaus1
User level: Level 9
52,749 points

Posted on Jun 8, 2007 4:49 AM

Hi Da Nam!

Taiyu Yuden are very good quality and should give you no problems.

Usually the designated burn speed refers to the maximum speed they will burn at, not the speed they have to be burned at.

Generally the slower the burn speed the better the burn. I generally burn at 2x or at the most 4x, using Verbatim or Fuji DVD-R rated at 'up to 8x high speed', and have no problems.

The 'disclaimer' you quote is not one I have seen on other brands. I guess the only test it to try it one at 2x, one at 4x and one at the burner's maximum of 8x, and see what, if any, difference there is.

Please post back with results!
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User profile for user: Klaus1
Klaus1
User level: Level 9
52,749 points

Jun 8, 2007 4:49 AM in response to Da Nam

Hi Da Nam!

Taiyu Yuden are very good quality and should give you no problems.

Usually the designated burn speed refers to the maximum speed they will burn at, not the speed they have to be burned at.

Generally the slower the burn speed the better the burn. I generally burn at 2x or at the most 4x, using Verbatim or Fuji DVD-R rated at 'up to 8x high speed', and have no problems.

The 'disclaimer' you quote is not one I have seen on other brands. I guess the only test it to try it one at 2x, one at 4x and one at the burner's maximum of 8x, and see what, if any, difference there is.

Please post back with results!
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User profile for user: Da Nam
Da Nam Author
User level: Level 4
1,115 points

Jun 8, 2007 6:39 AM in response to SDIllini

Hey, thanks guys for the speedy responses!

Klaus, I only get the option to burn, in DU, at either 1x, 4x or maximum, I'm not worried about what speed to burn at (apart from the fact that it takes so much longer to burn at slower speeds and if, like presently, I have a 50 disc run to perform, this takes forever) but I'm worried about any possible damage to my burner.

Sue, yes I found that article, but it's dated 2002, I'm burning from a 2004 flat panel g4 iMac, using a Sony DVD RW DW-V10A burner, which, according to that article should be OK for 4x media, but I'm contemplating the 16X discs.

The warning on the Taiyo Yuden case refers to 16x media.

The warning on the Sony DVD-R 16x discs reads:

This disc is a new standard - high speed media - in conformity with DVD-R for General Version 2.1 / 16X-SPEED DVD-R Revision 6.0. Always check if your device is compatible as using this disc on some drives/recorders might damage the disc or device. For further information, please contact the manufacturer or browse http://www.dvdhs.com

Having checked out that link the Apple link doesn't exist.

So, I guess, the main question is tthat is there anyone out there who knows if burning on these 16X discs will damage either the Sony in my g4 imac or the Pioneer in the G5 Powermac?
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User profile for user: Da Nam
Da Nam Author
User level: Level 4
1,115 points

Jun 8, 2007 7:08 AM in response to SDIllini

I agree, I wouldn't be burning at 16X, to maximise compatibility, it's just that they were the only TY's available - the printable Verbatims are also 16X at my local supplier and my deadline's creeping up on me so I don't really have time to chase up 8X's.

I'd have thought that if 16X's were an issue, Apple would put out some sort of article similar to the one referring to the 4x's - I just didn't want to risk it without primary evidence that I won't blow my burner(s)!
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User profile for user: F Shippey
F Shippey
User level: Level 7
21,500 points

Jun 8, 2007 7:49 AM in response to Da Nam

It is my understanding that the 'modern' DVD burners can use the higher speed media.

The early Apple Superdrives (I have one in my Quicksilver G4) were designed before media faster than 2x became available. There is a reserved area of a writable disc that is used for laser power testing - before actually burning data to a disc, the burner writes a test to this area and adjusts it's power level to match the media's need. The early drives would try to set the power to a level that destroyed the laser when used with high speed media. The fix Apple released limited the old Superdrives to 1x writing when used with high speed media.
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User profile for user: Susan_Forney
Susan_Forney
User level: Level 1
7 points

Jun 17, 2007 8:35 PM in response to SDIllini

I was having a similar problem and I tried to download the firmware upgrade--my guess is that this upgrade does not apply if you are running later versions of the OS. I am on 10.4.9 and it would not let me install it.

I have never tried burning a DVD until today--I have had this iMac for over three years. I had bought a 5-pack of Apple 8x DVD-Rs a while back, so I popped one in. The resulting DVD skips all over the place when played on a DVD player, can't even be recognized by the Mac that burned it, and skips around when played on a Windows laptop with Windows Media Player--but at least it is recognized.

So I went down to the local electronics superstore and bought ye olde stack o' DVD-RWs--they were 16xs. I chose RW because RW media is a little more reliable for burning. I burned a second DVD and it plays perfectly on the DVD player connected to the TV--but the Mac that burned it can't recognize it.

I don't think I can solve your problem because I sure am not positive about what is causing mine! But I would verify that you can't download the firmware upgrade if your drive is a qualifying drive--mine drive was, but I couldn't install the update. The error message said my machine was incompatible. And I might try some RW media as a test to see if you get better results. (I realize you may not want to burn lots of RW as the media is more expensive.)
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User profile for user: F Shippey
F Shippey
User level: Level 7
21,500 points

Jun 17, 2007 8:45 PM in response to Susan_Forney

Susan,

The firmware updater is for old Pioneer 2X 'Superdrives' that were installed in my old G4 Quicksilver that's 5 years (or so) old. It doesn't apply to new machines.

Old versions of iDVD don't directly support burning to a disk image file out of iDVD. You will find instructions on how to modify early versions of iDVD to do this here: http://homepage.mac.com/geerlingguy/macsupport/mac_help/pages/0015-burn_idvdother.html

When you create a disk image file in iDVD, you can then uses Apple's Disk Utility to burn your media at a slow speed (4x or slower).
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User profile for user: Rich839
Rich839
User level: Level 8
47,250 points

Jun 28, 2007 9:35 AM in response to Da Nam

For what it's worth, I have a Pioneer DVD-R-DVR-106D (not 107D like yours), and I burn 16x DVD-R disks all the time and have not noticed any problem with my burner. The disks burn fine without errors. I have a G5 Power Mac that I bought in 2004. I did note that this last time when I had a 25-disk burn project, 30 minutes per disk, if I did not give the burner a rest every 2 or 3 burns, I would get a "finished writing" message and had to encode again. This project was the only one that ever did that, and I don't know if it was because the burner was getting overheated or what. In any event, it did not seem to damage the burner as far as I can tell.

My experience may not apply to you or others, of course, so use your own discretion re burning 16x disks.
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User profile for user: Da Nam
Da Nam Author
User level: Level 4
1,115 points

Jun 30, 2007 12:44 PM in response to Rich839

Just to update everyone - I asked some pro's at a disk replication/duplication facility about this 16x in unsupported burner issue and they said it'd be ok to use the 16x's and the warning was just to cover themselves (but that they'd just write at a lower speed). I still wasn't convinced, but bit the bullet and tried it with the Taiyo Yudens, burning at 4x via disk image from DVDSP. If anyone wants the settings I used I will post at a later date as I'm going out right now.

The client just emailed me this morning and confirmed that they work! Thanks once again for all your kind help.

D.
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User profile for user: Klaus1
Klaus1
User level: Level 9
52,749 points

Jun 30, 2007 4:24 PM in response to Da Nam

Yes, the reference to 16x usually means that that is the maximum speed you can burn them at, not that you can't burn at a slower speed.

Useful to know as 4x or 8x DVDs are getting harder to find!

Taiyo Yuden have a good reputation. I believe the name refers to the coating formula. Several manufacturers, including Panasonic, market 'Taiyo Yuden' disks.
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User profile for user: Da Nam
Da Nam Author
User level: Level 4
1,115 points

Jul 1, 2007 3:21 AM in response to Klaus1

I can definitely recommend the Taiyo Yudens - the particular client in question has a player which wouldn't play 5 different brand of disk and although on the latest burn, I used a slightly lower data rate in DVDSP (as iDVD can only encode uncompressed audio), I'm pretty sure that the disks played a major part and can be recommended for short print runs where cheaper brands prove incompatible.

The Taiyo Yudens are more expensive than other brands but after exhausting all other options I'm just glad to have sorted the problem and provided an extra option for any future woes - and they give great glossy printable disks if you have a CD/DVD printer.

For anyone who's interested, here's the link to the folks that I use for my DVD media - they're very reasonable and helpful (It's easy for me to visit them as they're only a 5 minute drive from me.)

http://www.rivierapublishing.co.uk/acatalog/DVD-RInkjetPrintable.html
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safe to burn 16x discs in 8x rated burner?

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