Why is Logic so Unstable?

NO - fact is that more people has left Logic in the

ditch since Logic Pro emerged than with any other
Logic Version




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Dual 2.3 GHZ Mac OS X (10.4.8) PT HD3 / 4x ApoGee
Rosetta 800 / 8GB RAM / 1TB HD

G5 Dual 2.3 GHZ Mac OS X
(10.4.8) PT HD3 / 4x ApoGee Rosetta 800 / 8GB
RAM / 1TB HD

Saying that something is a fact does not make it a fact.

According to someone high up in the food chain who I cannot name here who worked for Emagic and now Apple, the number of worldwide Logic users is now the highest it has ever been. Apple attributes some of that to Garageband users upgrading to Logic Pro/Express.

You are absolutely right about Logic experiencing more users than ever. Logic USED to be an expert Application use by a fairly large number of people in the Pro Audio Industry. An industry with "few" users. Logic Pro may be earning more money for it's owners but it has lost it's great Rep. in the Pro Audio Industry and gained a reputation as consumer DAW. I'm not rating consumer or pro as better or worse but it remains a fact that most pros that were using logic as such has indeed switched. Also - as you say "Logic HAS gained many NEW users since switching to apple" which is true - but those NEW user have NO clue what Logic used to be.... It may be great for them - but an old time Logic users are disappointed very disappointed about the direction Logic has taken. IMO - the only thing pro about Logic is it's surname.

G5 Dual 2.3 GHZ Mac OS X (10.4.8) PT HD3 / 4x ApoGee Rosetta 800 / 8GB RAM / 1TB HD

You are absolutely right about Logic experiencing
more users than ever. Logic USED to be an expert
Application use by a fairly large number of people
in the Pro Audio Industry. An industry with "few"
users. Logic Pro may be earning more money for it's
owners but it has lost it's great Rep. in the Pro
Audio Industry and gained a reputation as consumer
DAW. I'm not rating consumer or pro as better or
worse but it remains a fact that most pros that were
using logic as such has indeed switched. Also - as
you say "Logic HAS gained many NEW users since
switching to apple" which is true - but those NEW
user have NO clue what Logic used to be.... It may
be great for them - but an old time Logic users are
disappointed very disappointed about the direction
Logic has taken. IMO - the only thing pro about
Logic is it's surname.

G5 Dual 2.3 GHZ Mac OS X
(10.4.8) PT HD3 / 4x ApoGee Rosetta 800 / 8GB
RAM / 1TB HD

Maybe in Germany, not here in LA. As I said in earlier posts I have been instrumental in helping several high profile pros whose names you would probably know in switching from other Daws to Logic Pro and none of them are talking about going back.

In L.A. Logic and PT are far and away the most popular choices among working pros with Digital Performer and Cubase trailing.

Logic 4.8.1 was stable and not terribly buggy. The "not terribly buggy" part made it feel like a dependable program.

I missed 5 and 6 because there was no reason for me to change. Howevuh, the capabilities of LP7 gave me reason to finally switch. I couldn't do what I do now with Logic 4. What I didn't bargain for was that many of Logic 4's bugs were still present in LP7, a tremendous number of new bugs now existed, and the programming of many stalwart features -- like the simple functionality of the key commands window -- became broken and showed signs of extremely sloppy programming -- sloppier than I could ever have expected from emagic or Apple. Embarrassing, really...

And the other tradeoff was the new company attitude about discussing bugs and accessibility to tech support.

But despite this, when you use Logic like I and so many other people do, you can't just suddenly switch. If you're tied into the score and matrix editors and beat mapping, if your sample libraries for EXS are your daily tools of the trade, and if the flexibility of the environment helps you make music, then there simply is no other choice but to slog through Logic's problems.

I now have a copy of DP on my system for evaluation. I opened it once, got that same old feeling of "this is alien and icky", and closed it. But I have every plan to hunker down and familiarize myself with it, because I don't know what Logic's future holds, and I do know that some of the film scoring tools in DP blow way what Logic has to offer.

In the meantime I'm "married" (or perhaps "prisoner"?) to Logic and I'll do what I can in the meantime to make the biggest ******* noise I can make to try to effect change. I'm know for a fact that some of my complaints have been heard at the top, but it's only a matter of time as to whether or not anything's done about it.

Meanwhile, I worked on PT a few weeks ago. Yeah, for audio it's great. For MIDI? C'mon, it ***** giant "eggs" compared to Logic. And the funny thing is that we were bouncing back and forth between Logic and PT (using Digi hardware of course) and both the engineer and myself thought that the exact same audio sounded better playing out of... (guess which one).

NO TRUE - there are many ways to operate Logic - From simple tasks to advanced Audio / Midi handling - the more advanced the more unstable

Absolutely irrelevant.

The majority of users are NOT putting Logic to the test with dense arrangements and audio etc. via 4 or more audio interfaces etc.... (There are however people who are and some of those DO manage to control Logic - but they are experts and have dealt with almost every possible and impossible Logic situation. It helps to RTFM 100 times... To really comprehend what is going on.

Again UTTERLY irrelevant

NO - fact is that more people has left Logic in the ditch since Logic Pro emerged than with any other Logic Version

Ha ha, riiiight, you have access to the figures do you ?

Protools has the most diverse pool of 3rd pty hardware out there and they are facing issues of course but NOT in the nature of Logic Pro.

Let me get this right, you are comparing the amount of pro-tools hardware to the amount of general DAW hardware.
Now I KNOW you're talking rot.

If they do - they should keep updating - It has been a LONG while since the last Logic update --- and there are still a million issues

Compared to Pro-Tools and Cubase, Logic is constantly updated.

Look, if you are having a problem, enjoy your minority status, but trying to endorse statements that the app is unstable is a cul-de-sac.

In L.A. Logic and PT are far and away the most
popular choices among working pros with Digital
Performer and Cubase trailing.

If I were you I'd do a little research before making statements like that. I've done quite a few recordings there (Pro Facilities). And they ALL on Protools

Where can I find these figures online? Y'know, PT sales vs. LP sales in professional studios in LA?

dont know if such exists. I can only judge by what I've seen. Check web sites of large facilities. I am talking about RECORDING studios here. Not project studios etc... Most rely on PT for audio. And I have yet to see a customer renting a high quality studio to do midi...They'll probably have Logic somewhere in a project of composition room but not on the main DAW hooked up to the SSL

In L.A. Logic and PT are far and away the most
popular choices among working pros with Digital
Performer and Cubase trailing.

If I were you I'd do a little research before making
statements like that. I've done quite a few
recordings there (Pro Facilities). And they ALL on
Protools

I don't have to. I live and work here 24/7.

In pro recording studios and post production facilities PT is indeed dominant. In composer's studios Logic and PT are both common, sometimes in tandem.

The following people are among those who use Logic Pro here in LA either with PT or alone that I have had some personal contact with:

John Powell (The Italian Job), Sean Callery (24), Bruce Miller (Frasier), Michael Levine (Cold Case), Klaus Bandelt (Pirates of the Caribbean), Johnny Klimek and Reinhold Heil (Run Lola Run), Ray Colcord (The Facts of Life).

Is that enough for a start? Are they "pro" enough for you?

so you are telling me that those Hi act H-wood movies were recorded in Logic or composed in logic and mixed and live recorded somewhere else.

Hum your audio interfaces have all had reports on here of trouble and causing bust outs. I wonder if you can try running with the internal audio interface unplug the external and see if your session is better. If it is, that's your issue.

so you are telling me that those Hi act H-wood movies
were recorded in Logic or composed in logic and mixed
and live recorded somewhere else.

Some yes, some no, some a bit of both.

I have no problem with your expressing your dissatisfaction but when you make statements like "IMO - the only thing pro about
Logic is it's surname." you are by implication telling me and the other pros that use it daily that we are not as pro as you are, which is factually incorrect.

And all you have to do is check the MOTU and Steinbeg forums to see that the others have the same ampount of problems or more.

ProTools is a different beast than the others as it uses its own hardware, its own plug-in standard, and is still primarily an audio app as its midi capabilities are nowhere in the same league. So if you compare it to Logic, DP, or Cubase it really is apples and oranges.

I have no problem with your expressing your
dissatisfaction but when you make statements like
"IMO - the only thing pro about
Logic is it's surname." you are by implication
telling me and the other pros that use it daily that
we are not as pro as you are, which is factually
incorrect.

That is NOT what I am saying.... There are pros using 24 tracks otaris etc and other Old equipment. Just cuz they do that dont mean they aint pro. When I make a statement like that it does NOT refer to you as being an amateur... I dont know if you are more or less pro than I - he** I dont even know how someone can be more pro than pro. Pro is Pro and it solely means that you make money with what you're doing... Amateur is used for someone who has NOT turned his doings into a PROfession. I know many amateurs better than many pros...

Dont interpret things into my sentences that I have not said. For the record: I dont think logic qualifies as a professional Application - which does not automatically categorize those using it as amateurs...

G5 Dual 2.3 GHZ Mac OS X (10.4.8) PT HD3 / 4x ApoGee Rosetta 800 / 8GB RAM / 1TB HD

ProTools is a different beast than the others as it
uses its own hardware, its own plug-in standard, and
is still primarily an audio app as its midi
capabilities are nowhere in the same league. So if
you compare it to Logic, DP, or Cubase it really is
apples and oranges.

You are being insulting... You only stumbled on the words you found offensive. Read what I wrote AGAIN and this time open your eyes doing so...

I stated that PT was NOT good midi wise. I stated that I used Logic for Midi and that LOGIC WAS THE BEST DAW OUT THERE FOR MIDI

Gees - to me it seems like y'all scared of people NOT using Logic or having opinions about it.... here you see people ALWAYS defending Logic.... as if they scared they are using something that aint the hottest... It reminds me of a PC user trying to say that a PC is as good as a mac...

Be happy with what YOU use stop defending yourself when people have other opinions.

G5 Dual 2.3 GHZ Mac OS X (10.4.8) PT HD3 / 4x ApoGee Rosetta 800 / 8GB RAM / 1TB HD

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