Neural Engine bug: Adobe, DXO

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Neural Engine bug: Adobe, DXO

Both Adobe and DXO say they cannot use the Neural Engine. This is a longstanding issue that seems to have been introduced in Ventura and still has not been fixed. :-( Not a problem on Monterey.

Eric Chan, one of the longtime Adobe software engineers, wrote this article about the new Lightroom Classic 12.3 Denoise AI function:

Denoise demystified

https://blog.adobe.com/en/publish/2023/04/18/denoise-demystified

Finally, we built our machine learning models to take full advantage of the latest platform technologies, including NVIDIA’s TensorCores and the Apple Neural Engine. Using these technologies enables our models to run faster on modern hardware.

But, then Ian Lyon wrote:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-discussions/denoise-ai-in-12-3/m-p/13739400

Currently, the Apple Neural Engine found in M1/M2 silicon Macs is not used by Denoise. It's expected that performance will be even better when Denoise does use the Apple Neural Engine.

There is no change to above comments regarding the use of Tensor cores in NVidia cards. That is, Tensor cores are used by Denoise.

Apparently, an issue on Apple side means that the Neural Engine is not used by Adobe Denoise. When the issue is addressed, then Adobe Denoise is ready to take advantage of the Neural Engine.

And then Rikk Flohr confirmed it:

@Ian Lyons information is correct regarding the Neural Engine on Apple devices

Rikk Flohr - Customer Advocacy: Adobe Photography Products

Here is a long thread on the DXO forum that has been going for 6+ months about color problems when using the Neural Engine (faster), but not when using the GPU (slower):

https://feedback.dxo.com/t/deepprime-xd-introduces-purple-overlay-chromatic-aberration/29191/17

DXO even has a big red notice about the Apple Neural Engine bug:

I wonder if there will be a Ventura update such as 13.3.2 that will fix the problem? It has been months and months and still not fixed. :-(

Posted on May 2, 2023 3:57 PM

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Answer 1

balitou Author

Level 1

5 points

May 22, 2023 1:51 PM in response to balitou

It seems likely that Ventura 13.4 did not fix the Neural Engine problem that DxO has been waiting for. Here is the update info for DxO PhotoLab 6.6:

https://download-center.dxo.com/Support/docs/PhotoLab_v6/release-notes/PL6_release-note_mac_EN.pdf

Note what DxO wrote down at the bottom in the Bug fixes section where there are 2 bugs mentioned:

If Apple had fixed the NE problem in 13.4 then older versions of DxO should again start working properly like they do with Monterey and earlier, but apparently they do not. It sounds like DxO has implemented some sort of kludge that allows use of the fast NE on Ventura, but somehow fixes or mitigates the color problem -- but only if you use 6.6 though. For example, maybe after the NE does its work DxO then corrects the color problem and chessboard problem and it only does this kludge when running on Ventura. Not good. It sounds like pre-6.6 versions running on Ventura will still have the problem, but they are okay on Monterey and earlier versions.

And we know nothing yet about the problems Adobe has with the Neural Engine. Maybe the same as DxO or maybe different problems.

I have seen no more updates from DxO and Adobe so I do not yet know if 13.4 did anything to try and fix the problem. I have seen nothing from Apple from the beginning of this either. Has anyone seen something? If so, then let us know and provide a link. Thank you.

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Answer 2

dialabrain

Level 10

122,813 points

May 13, 2023 9:00 PM in response to balitou

balitou wrote:

Yes, I understand that. Possibly Apple has shared with Adobe and DXO whether it will ever be fixed, but maybe they had to sign an ND so they are quiet too.

Obviously if true, Adobe wouldn't be talking either. You just have to wait and see.

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Answer 3

balitou Author

Level 1

5 points

May 19, 2023 5:44 PM in response to balitou

Ventura 13.4 was released a couple of days ago. I can find no mention of the Neural Engine though. If Apple has fixed it then, I suppose, we will need to wait for an Adobe Lightroom Classic update to re-enable the Neural Engine code. Fingers crossed the problem has been fixed in 13.4!

Apple releases macOS Ventura 13.4 with new sports-related features

https://9to5mac.com/2023/05/18/macos-ventura-13-4-now-available/

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Answer 4

mac45456

Level 1

4 points

May 21, 2024 8:05 AM in response to balitou

Just updated to Camera Raw 16.3 and can confrim using Denoise AI is now TWICE as fast! It took my machine 4 minutes to process 10 images (24mp Canon R3 files) using the previous version. CR 16.3 only took 2 minutes. Thats a huge improvement! Incase anyone cares, im running a 16in Macbook Pro, M1 Pro with 32GB of ram. Sonoma 14.4.1.

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Answer 5

balitou Author

Level 1

5 points

May 21, 2024 11:14 PM in response to mac45456

That is good news! LrC can finally use the Neural Engine for Denoise. You are using Sonoma 14.4.1, so I suppose Apple finally fixed the problem not long ago and Adobe is now able to make use of the Neural Engine. I guess the latest Sonoma 14.5 from last week is not necessary. I have Ventura 13.6.7 on my M2 Pro 12/19 16" MBP 32gb/1tb. I wonder if LrC 13.3 will be able to use the Neural Engine on that too? I have not yet installed 13.3.

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Answer 6

dialabrain

Level 10

122,813 points

May 3, 2023 2:57 PM in response to balitou

balitou wrote:

I wonder if there will be a Ventura update such as 13.3.2 that will fix the problem? It has been months and months and still not fixed. :-(

Only Apple knows what their plans are.

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Answer 7

balitou Author

Level 1

5 points

May 13, 2023 8:57 PM in response to dialabrain

Yes, I understand that. Possibly Apple has shared with Adobe and DXO whether it will ever be fixed, but maybe they had to sign an ND so they are quiet too.

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Neural Engine bug: Adobe, DXO

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