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? Best way to setup midi for more than 16 audio instruments (all AU's) ?

I'm trying to configure the midi for more than 16 AU audio instruments (various AU samplers: vsl, etc.).

What's the best way to do this? It seems as though there are several ways to do it. (See below.)

I'm getting some cross-feed midi or something on a couple of the instruments, so I've obviously not got it right yet.

I've tried various things to get more than 16 independent midi streams. I've tried using these either with or without the 16 internal Logic midi channels. I've tried the following:
- virtual midi ports (each carrying 16 midi streams)
- Apple IACs (adding them in the Audio/Midi setup of the computer)
- hardware midi ports (such as a midisport 4x4)

So far, none of the my setups has solved the problem, so it's clear I'm not doing something right.

A PERSONAL NOTE ABOUT MY POST:
I realize that my question may be full of what sounds like an idiot's babble. Please don't take offense if I don't use just the right terminology or language. I'm just here trying to get help with a problem.

I see the forum as a great resource, and I've usually gotten good help in the past, for which I'm very grateful.

All the best,
S.

G5 dual 2.5, 6.5 ram, second 10K hard drive internal, Mac OS X (10.4.10)

Posted on Aug 5, 2007 6:43 AM

Reply
14 replies

Aug 5, 2007 8:35 AM in response to Fred B

Well, yes, you can use more than 16 "standard midi instruments" (aka plain instruments) to send midi to a huge number of midi streams....only depends on how many "midi ports" you have, either virtual or real (hardware device), or (I suppose) even IACs.

There are several ways to setup and use more than 16 midi streams at one time. I'm just asking if there is perhaps a best way, or if there is some reason why I might be getting what seems like unidentifiable midi data on one of my tracks.

Perhaps I'm asking what has worked best for everyone. Right now I have 21 midi instruments connected to 21 AU instruments (via the hybird audio instruments that can handle either midi or audio). The only reason to connect them to the midi instruments is to be able to control which midi PORT they use. And the only reason to do this is you have more than 16 midi streams of midi data (or...more than one port can handle.)

Help?
S.

Aug 5, 2007 9:20 AM in response to Steve Rouse

Ok, so I understand you just want to play the instruments without using the sequencer. I assume that your MIDI streams are coming from the outside and arrive on different input ports, max 16 MIDI channels on each port.

Then I would organize it like this:

Cable each used input port from the physical inputs object to a channel splitter and from there to different audio instruments (max 16). Thus you are limited only by the max number of audio instruments (I guess 128, ie. you could use 8 ports with 16 channels on each port).

Does that make sense to you?

Message was edited by: Fred B

Aug 5, 2007 9:28 AM in response to Fred B

No, sorry, Fred. I have midi data in the sequencer on all 21 tracks. I've disconnected the SUM output from the Physical Input, so that the global passing of all midi data doesn't happen. Then, I've used the Midi Instruments to choose the Port and Channel of each track. On the Arrange page, each track has a different Midi Instrument selected, and in the Environment each Midi Instrument is cabled to a different Audio Instrument that is loaded with an AU sampler instrument.

I tried it the way you suggest below, with no better luck. That's how I started, actually.

My guess is that either way probably works, and that what I really have going on is some other kind of problem.

I've isolated the issue to (apparently) one track. At a certain point in the sequence, that track begins to receive audio that sounds like a delay loop, a very rhythmic bonk of the E just above middle C. There is nothing on that track or another that's anything like that...I've checked the matrix, the events window, the hyper edit window, etc. Nothing.

Which I suppose means that somehow, at some point, a midi (or perhaps audio?) feedback loop gets triggered. But I can't find any automation data or anything else that is triggering this repetitious bonking.

Depending on exactly how I cable everything together and how I assign the midi channels, the bonking takes on slightly different qualities.

My next attempt will be to use an external device (either standalone sampler or physical midi device) to play that track. I'll have to port the audio to an Input Device, but if I can work that out, it might work.

Help?
S.

Aug 5, 2007 10:04 AM in response to Steve Rouse

Well, if your MIDI data is on the tracks you just need to simulate that it's coming from outside. This can easily be done with IAC, ie. sending MIDI from the tracks to IAC, and receiving at the corresponding IAC input ports.

Note that each IAC bus can handle 16 MIDI channels. So for 21 tracks you need to activate 2 IAC busses in Audio Midi Setup.

PS.
Make sure that the tracks sending to IAC are not rec-enabled to avoid a feedback loop!

Aug 5, 2007 11:26 AM in response to Randall Thomas

Hi, Randall. When you setup an AU instrument, you have to specify a midi channel on the Channel strip. That number only goes to 16. Are you saying the number chosen there doesn't matter? That I can just ignore it, and all of the data on each track will only be sent to itself? If that's the case, I didn't realize it. I'll give it a try then.

- S

Aug 5, 2007 1:32 PM in response to mattdean

Hi, Matt. This does work. However, when I bypass the external midi device, it seems that my system is very taxed...quite a few snags and stutters in the sound.

Is this logical?

I still have some kind of glitch on one of my tracks....not sure what that is. An instrument that uses a sustain pedal plays short notes even when the sustain pedal info is there. This only happens when I play the track from the beginning, not when I start the sequence just prior to the entry of the instrument.

I've searched all the data windows for a clue. Any suggestions are welcome.

- S.

Aug 5, 2007 2:04 PM in response to Steve Rouse

+I still have some kind of glitch on one of my tracks....not sure what that is. An instrument that uses a sustain pedal plays short notes even when the sustain pedal info is there. This only happens when I play the track from the beginning, not when I start the sequence just prior to the entry of the instrument.+

Sounds like a stealing voice-problem....

Aug 6, 2007 5:31 AM in response to Steve Rouse

So if that's the case, then the Event List assignment of channel for
each piece of midi data is also NOT RELEVANT?


It depends. In situations where it's not relevant, then that's true. Plenty of other situations where it is relevant.

For the time being, it you aren't getting why these parameters exist, then you probably don't need to worry about the ramifications. Many softsynths are monotimbral and don't care about the MIDI channel of incoming data, so it matters little whether notes are coming in on channel 3 or channel 15.

Other instruments use different channels for different things - the EVB3 in Logic for instance uses channels 1-3 for the three organ manuals and will not respond at all to notes coming in on channel 4-16.

Other instruments are 16-part multitimbral and will trigger a different part/sound for each MIDI channel.

? Best way to setup midi for more than 16 audio instruments (all AU's) ?

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