Mac OS 10.3.9, What do I need and How do I Install OS 9?

An iBook 800 MHz is still OS 9 bootable, so your job is much easier and the parts are readily available. If you were starting over with a blank drive, there is a slight advantage in having it partitioned into two Volumes. But it is not a requirement.

Mac OS X 10.3.9 and Mac OS 9 can co-exist on one Drive without getting in each other's way. Their files are stored in different folders with no overlap, and a 10.3, previous problems with Mac OS X "stepping on OS 9's toes" seem to have been solved. You need at least 1 GB free, 1.5 GB or a little more is better. You must have installed the OS 9 drivers when you Hard Drive was last initialized or partitioned.

The OS 9.1 or better you run directly as Mac OS 9 is the same software used interchangeably for Classic. Once updated inside Mac OS X, it can serve as bootable OS 9 or Classic under Mac OS X, and you can change its usage back and forth whenever you wish with no software modification required.

You need a "Full Retail" Install CD, white with a big Gold 9 on it, or the gray CD for EXACTLY your Mac and no other model. Any version of OS 9 can then be updated to 9.1, then 9.2, then 9.2.2 with (sometimes large) free downloadable updates from this site.Kenichi is correct. you must have version 9.2 or the Installer CD that came with your Mac. That original CD will have an old version of Mac OS X, but should still be useable to install OS 9.

Your CD drive must be working and bootable (i.e., not Brand X). It is possible you may be able to use an external CD drive.

Message was edited by: Grant Bennet-Alder

You don't have to reinstall Mac OS X 10.3.9.

In fact, you just need to get a Mac OS 9.1 or later (preferably 9.2.2) System Folder on your iBook. Classic under Mac OS X does not care where that System Folder resides; it can be on an external drive or even a mounted disk image.

The normal way to get a Mac OS 9 System Folder is one of two ways. Find your iBook on this list.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=25114

If your iBook can boot directly into Mac OS 9, you probably need to get a Mac OS 9.2.2 Installation CD. If your iBook is one that cannot boot directly into Mac OS 9, it probably came with a CD or DVD with an installer for "Classic Support" or a customize option in the OS installer to install it.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?path=Mac/10.4/en/mh763.html

If you have access to a Mac that already has a Mac OS 9 System Folder on, you can copy it over to the iBook and use it as Classic.

Correcting myself, when I said "you probably need to get a Mac OS 9.2.2 Installation CD," I meant 9.2.1. I don't think Apple ever made a 9.2.2 Installation CD. It's 9.2.1 with the upgrader to get 9.2.2.

Hi, Conner -

An iBook G3 800MHz machine can be one of three models - iBook (32 VRAM), iBook (14" LCD 32 VRAM), or an iBook (Early 2003). This Apple KBase article can help you identify the Apple designation for your machine -
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=88039

All three originally came with OSX 10.2.x and OS 9.2.2, and an original combination set of install disks for both OSX and OS 9; the disk set boots to OSX, but can install OS 9 (Classic).

There is no stand-alone OS 9 Install CD, any version, that such a machine can use. The only way to install OS 9 (Classic) is to use the original disk set for the machine.

One of these Apple KBase articles should help you do that -
Article #106294 - Mac OS X: How to reinstall Mac OS 9
Article #107383 - Mac OS X 10.2, 10.3: How to perform Mac OS 9 clean installation with Restore CDs

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Provided you do not need to boot the machine to OS 9 and will need it only for use as Classic, you can instead copy a working OS 9.2.x System Folder from another Mac. This should work fine as Classic, but will not work as a boot OS.

Note that not all OS 9 software will work in Classic. This includes any download updates for OS 9 itself.

If you find that it is possible to run Classic OS 9.2 on an intel duo
Mac OS 10 machine PLEASE LET US KNOW

AS i understand it no such is possible due to intel chip

In other words we lose all our investments in OS 9.2 software
which could mean thousands of dollars am i correct in this ?

You can install an Open Software package called Sheepshaver (meant to be a pun on "Shape Shifter"). It allows at most OS 9.0.4, and requires a CD of that era. It has a non-trivial set-up, but once its configured you don't have to fiddle with it too much. There are installation/configuring recipes available on the Internet.

It sure would be nice if Apple provided something, rather than forcing users to resort to third-party emulators. I know they want to discourage new OS 9 development, but I think they have won that argument and should provide some tools to connect to their older software.

I have the same issue, i need to install 9 after i replaced my hard drive and bought os 10.3 from mac and i have read and found everything but directions on how to install 9 on a 10.3. I have talked with numerous boards,chats, e-mail etc. My conclusion, no one really knows how to. *** , why dont folks say i dont know instead of trying to baffle us with BS. Not enough pro support for us that switched, hop it was not a mistake. I cant find out what mount the disk even means! JEEZ

Hi, jobbertoo -

Welcome to Apple's Discussions.

Let's see if we can get you going.

First, though, we'll need to know the exact model of PowerBook that you have - it makes a difference with regard to what version of OS 9 you can use, and what source disk you can use to install it. One of these articles should be able to help you identify the specific model -

• G3 series PowerBooks - http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=24604

• G4 series PowerBooks - http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=88248

It would also help to know the processor (machine) speed of the machine. This can be found in System Profiler in the Apple menu (the Apple menu is the leftmost menu in the main menubar at the top of the screen, and is identified by the icon of an apple).

***

I cant find out what mount the disk even means!

A disk is 'mounted' when its icon is visible on the desktop (the main window of the operating system). When a disk is mounted, it has been recognized by the OS and can be accessed.

For example, when you insert a CD, there will be a pause as the disk is spun up and read by the OS. After a few seconds an icon representing that disk will appear on the desktop - this indicates the OS has identified the disk, found it to be healthy, read its directories, and it is now ready for you to use. Before the icon appears on the desktop (before it has mounted) you can not access the disk; once it has, you can.

Hi, jobbertoo. Tell us exactly which of the more than two dozen Powerbook G4 models you have, and we'll tell you how to install OS 9 on it. Instructions vary considerably, depending on which model you have.

It's certainly not true that "no one really knows how," and I doubt that anyone will waste the time he or she voluntarily donates in these user-to-user forums "trying to baffle" you. Voicing your certainty that everyone is out to jerk you around probably doesn't enhance your chances of getting the help you need, so in future I recommend that you just ask your questions straight, without the attitude.

A disk is "mounted" when its icon appears on the desktop. Mounting is done automatically by the Mac OS whenever a formatted disk in readable condition is connected to the Mac. An unformatted disk must be formatted before it can be mounted. An external hard drive, or a CD or DVD in an external optical drive, or any other removable or disconnectable media volume such as a USB flash drive, flash memory card in a camera or card reader, etc. must be dismounted from the desktop by the user before it can safely be ejected, disconnected, or powered off. A volume can be dismounted by dragging its icon to the Trash or selecting the icon and using the Eject key on the keyboard.

EDIT: Don got his post in while I was working on mine, and he noticed correctly that you might have a Powerbook G3 rather than a G4.

Sorry for the frustration, and thanks for the help.G3 400Mhz, family 7572, 384 MB ram, need more ram (next project), os9.2.1 retail version (white disk gold 9). i boot from the 9 disk and get confused, for lack of knowledge i suppose. I am wondering is mac platform like microsoft as far as partioning, 2 virtual harddrives on one physical drive.I have not been able to figure out how to save my bookmarks and settings to a flash drive, I was going to go that route do a clean install of 9, then reinstall 10. Is that the simplest way? I would like to run in 10 and be able to open my 9 apps from my 10 apps. folder. Am i looking at a mac in the correct light? Thanks again everyone, no attitude intended.

Hi, jobbertoo -

Okay, your G3 machine is a PowerBook (Firewire) model. It originally came with OS 9.0.2, which is a model-specific version of OS 9. All Macs have a minimum OS which they can use, typically the version that they originally shipped with.

This means that a retail OS 9.1 or 9.2.1 Install CD is suitable; since you have a retail OS 9.2.1 Install CD, it should work.

Yes, Mac drives can be partitioned into two or more volumes; many folk routinely do that, particularly with large drives - among other things, doing so can reduce net seek times. For most purposes, Mac OS's treat each partition as if it were a separate drive; this includes the ability to use each partition as a boot volume, with different OS versions on each (there are a few limitations to this, but none applicable in this instance).

It is not necessary to partition a drive in order to have both OS 9 and OSX on it. OSX was designed to be able to cohabit the same volume (a volume = an unpartitioned drive or a partition of a partitioned drive) as OS 9. On those later machines which shipped with both OS9 and OSX pre-installed, both came on the same volume. In that configuration either OS can be used as the boot OS, and OS 9 can also be used as Classic under OSX.

Many folk prefer to separate OS 9 and OSX; doing so can make housekeeping and, should it ever be necessary, re-installation of either OS much easier. Whether you choose to partition or not is your choice.

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If you choose to not partition the drive...

You should be able to install OS 9 directly, via a Clean Install. Note that in the Mac OS 9 terminology, a Clean Install erases nothing. Instead, it installs a brand new, 'clean' System Folder, an assortment of OS 9 utility programs, creates a couple of standard OS 9 folders {Applications (Mac OS 9) and Documents}, and little else - it will not overwrite anything. This Apple KBase addresses that -
Article #58176 - Mac OS 8, Mac OS 9: Performing a Clean Installation

You will need to boot the machine to the OS 9.2.1 Install CD in order to do that.

There is a possibility that when you have booted to the CD, the internal hard drive on the PowerBook will not mount (its icon will not be visible on the desktop). If this happens, it usually means that the drive was last formatted by using OSX's Disk Utility and the option to install OS 9 drivers was not selected. If those drivers are not installed, the drive can not be mounted by OS 9, hence is inaccessible for installation when booting to an OS 9 install CD. This Apple KBase article discusses that issue -
Article #106849 - Disk Is Available in Mac OS X But Not in Mac OS 9

If that is the case, the article suggests one possible remedy - using OS 9's Drive Setup to re-install OS 9 drivers. Unfortunately that rarely works, and it then becomes necessary to re-initialize the drive in order to get OS 9 drivers onto it. This erases the drive, so backing up things you do not want to lose is necessary.

You can re-initialize the drive using OSX's Disk Utility; if you do, be sure to select the option to install OS 9 drivers.

You can also use OS 9's Drive Setup to do the work; in this case OS 9 drivers are installed automatically.

In either case, select Mac OS Extended as the format.

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If you do want to partition the drive, you will first need to back up any data you do not want to lose, since partitioning a drive will erase it completely.

You can use OSX's Disk Utility or OS 9's Drive Setup to do the partitioning. If you use OSX's Disk Utiity, be sure to select the option to install OS 9 drivers; in either case select Mac OS Extended as the format for each partition.

The following article describes how to use OS 9's Drive Setup, including using it to partition a drive. OSX's Disk Utility is similar in logic, but the settings are on different pages.
Using Drive Setup

As far as a partitioning scheme goes, it would be very good if the hard drive is at least 10GB in size. If that is the case, you can probably get by with about 2GB for OS 9, and the remainder for OSX. If it happens to be a 20GB drive, I'd suggest 5GB for OS 9, the remainder for OSX.

There are two reasons to grant OSX the lion's share of the drive -

(1) OSX needs more room for installation.

(2) OSX runs best when there is at least 5GB free space on the drive after installation of OSX and its applications.

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I have not been able to figure out how to save my bookmarks and settings to a flash drive...

As far as copying off those items, someone else will need to advise as to where they might be located.

However, you might consider an alternative -

Get an external firewire drive, something around 20 or 30GB in size, or even larger. Use it to make a clone of your hard drive - everything will be copied over, including a usable version of OSX. Then do what you need to do to the internal drive; once that is done, clone the items back from the firewire drive. This not only makes moving things around a lot easier, it maintains their integrity - more importantly, it provides you with a backup and archiving drive. In order to clone the internal drive you will need to use a cloning utility, such as one of these -
Carbon Copy Cloner
SuperDuper!

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I would like to run in 10 and be able to open my 9 apps from my 10 apps. folder. Am i looking at a mac in the correct light?

Not exactly.

OS 9 and OSX are completely different operating systems. OS 9 is the culmination of a series of OS's that started with Mac OS 1.0 over 20 years ago, and shares some of the same basic costruction as the fist one. OSX, on the other hand, is brand new - other than some visual similarities, it shares none of the basics with OS 9 and earlier, not even the same logic of what is where and how various OS files interact.

This means that software written for OS 9 will not run in OSX, and vice versa - there are basic incompatibilities.

One solution for that, applicable to machines which can boot to both OS's (only one at a time, of course), is to have both OS's available and choose which to boot the machine to, depending on what software is to be used. Although your machine can boot to either, not all can - many late model G4 machines and all G5 machines can not boot to OS 9.

However, all OSX versions shipped to date can use OS 9 (OS 9.1 or later, depending on the model) as Classic. Classic is OS 9 used as a program (more like a shell rather than as an emulator) while booted to OSX in order to provide an environment in which many OS 9 programs can be run. An install of OS 9 can be used both for booting (for OS 9 bootable machines) as well as for Classic.

Not all OS 9 programs will fare well in Classic - specifically, OS 9 programs which require direct access to the machine's hardware (such as the graphics card) will not run well, if at all, in Classic - the reason is that OSX retains control of the hardware even when Classic is running. The group of programs most susceptible to this limitation is games.