AVCHD and iMovie with Panasonic SD5 - Bugs and Observations

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Level 1

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AVCHD and iMovie with Panasonic SD5 - Bugs and Observations

Hi,

I know I posted some of this information in another thread but thought I would also break it out into a separate thread to make it easier to find and I also added some more info.

I went out and bought the Panasonic SD5 last night. I have only had a few minutes to do some tests and have provided some of my findings. Now I know that it is not on the officially supported list of cameras for iMovie08 but I am hoping it will make that list very soon since it is not much different than the SD1 version, which is supported.

The SD1 was only able to take video in 1440x1080 mode, and the new SD5 is full HD since it can capture video at the full 1920x1080. I took some footage in the full 1920x1080 mode and some in the 1440x1080 mode. As I mentioned the SD1 model only did 1440x1080 and iMovie would then make that 1920x1080 during import (more on this later since how Apple does this presents a problem).

Now to get the clips off the SDHC card. I have not tried connecting the actual camera to my Mac Book Pro (thought I would try something else first), but did connect the USB card reader that came with the 4GB SDHC card I bought. When I ran iMovie 08 it recognized that card as a camera and went to the import screen. This made me happy since I now know I do not have to connect the camera every time I want to import. I was able to import my video from the SDHC card using the card reader with no problems.

I also burned the contents of the 4GB card to a DVD and when I had that DVD in my drive iMovie recognized it as a camera and was able to import from the DVD. I thought this was great since I can now backup my raw AVCHD clips on DVD and import the clips I want when I need them. This is much cheaper than having to have multiple SD cards;-)

Now to the quirks that I noticed. For all the full 1920x1080 mode clips it imported them as 2560x1980. I assume this is because all the AVCHD cameras that are supported are 1440x1080. To make that video the full 1920x1080 Apple is just increasing the width dimension by 33.333% which is the percentage the width dimension needs to be increased to make it the true 1920 dimension for HD. When I imported the 1440x1080 mode clips they seemed to be stored as 1920x1080 doing the same 33.333% increase. I assume Apple coded iMovie to add 33.333% to anything that is being imported as 1920x1080 instead of looking at the dimensions the video was captured at. This is annoying and I hope that Apple fixes this soon. I did all my edits with the 2560x1080 clips. When I shared using export to Quicktime I made sure I just changed the size to 1920x1080. The exported movie looked fine again (not stretched). Does anyone know if I am losing quality doing this?

I do like the higher res and random access capability of the AVCHD camera vs a tape one. But I have to get use to that importing the clips takes longer than the time length of the clips. Whereas with tape the import is 1:1 with the length of the clips. So I guess it is a trade off of convenience of picking the clips you want vs a faster import on tape. One thing I did notice is that I cannot import a portion of a clip. I have to import an entire clip. Is this the case for the SD1 model? I thought I could scrub and selectively import video from parts of a clip. Any information on this would be appreciated?

You better have a lot of HD space for imported HD clips. These clips get very large when they are imported. A 20 sec clip was approx. 200MB when imported. I will have to play with this to see if there is anything I can do with it. During the import it converts the AVCHD format to Apple's AIC format. Does anyone know if my quality is being maintained in this conversion?

I hope that apple puts out an update that will fix the 2560 problem. I assume they will at some point. It is annoying to have that.

Sorry for the rambling but I thought this info may be useful and was hoping to get some clarification on some of my questions.

15" MBP, Mac OS X (10.4.10)

Posted on Sep 14, 2007 9:22 AM

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Answer 1

Sep 14, 2007 3:04 PM in response to CoolDad

imovie imports my 1920 x 1080 non anamorphic video (not from my camera) without a problem, I would think it is likely that your camera is applying the wrong flags to its video that is causing imovie to do this.

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Answer 2

Sep 14, 2007 9:27 PM in response to CoolDad

Just got my SD5 tonight as well. After noting a problem with stretched images, I came here to see if this was a known issue. Thanks for your well written description of the problem. I will try connecting the camera directly instead of through the SD reader. But it should be the same either way. So far, I love this camera, though.

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Answer 3

Sep 14, 2007 9:49 PM in response to Kent Wien

Still no luck after formatting the card and importing directly from the camera instead of the SD reader. I notice that as it's importing, you can see the video looking correct. But once you look at it in iMovie '08, it is streatched out Any ideas, anyone?

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Answer 4

Sep 15, 2007 4:17 AM in response to CoolDad

Hi and thanks for your post. I too did some testing with the HD-5 with the same result of a squeezed image on import. I'm sure as more AVCHD models come to market Apple will support them. I am an Aperture user and this has been the case with that app. Over time, more and more cameras are supported. The SD 5 does have an internal "clip split option" This does allow you to "pre split" clips into smaller pieces before import. You can then choose not to import them into '08. As a side note, I also have an HD-1. I did side by side shooting of both cameras. When played back, both in imovie and direct (camera to HMDI cable to Hi def monitor} I really couldn't see a differance in image quality between the cameras in day light shooting. Do you think the SD-5 is doing the 33% up res internally?

I loved how the HD-5 felt in my hand, and some of its updated firmware features, however in low light shooting I found the SD-1 to be far less noisy, (larger chips I guess) and returned the HD 5.

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Answer 5

CoolDad Author

Level 1

5 points

Sep 15, 2007 4:37 AM in response to mhorowitz

I am not sure if it is the SD5 that is actually the cause for the stretched image when importing. I am still investigating this. I have a felling that it is iMovie based on how it appears to deal with AVCHD clips. I have Final Cut Pro and will try to do some testing on that to see if it also does the stretching. If it does not then I would suspect iMovie 8 is the culprit.

Yes, I noticed the split option on the camera so I can break up the clips and be more selective on my imports. I have not played with it too much yet but plan on it.

I agree with your low light observations. The SD1 will probably be much better with low light since the sensors are larger than the SD5. With a smaller sensor and a higher density of pixels being captured the SD5 will not be as good with low light. This is probably my only major complaint about the camera. In outdoor full light scenes the picture is truly amazing. The colors are so vibrant. I will have to do some more testing with low light.

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Answer 6

CoolDad Author

Level 1

5 points

Sep 15, 2007 4:40 AM in response to Winston Churchill

Winston,

Was the 1920x1080 non anamorphic video that you were importing in AVCHD format? My research shows that it seems that the stretching is isolated to the AVCHD import algorithm. Imports from other formats do not seem to have this stretching issue.

You are correct that it could be the camera itself, but I am still suspect of iMovie 8 right now. I will run some more tests to see if I can narrow it down.

Thanks for your reply.

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Answer 7

CoolDad Author

Level 1

5 points

Sep 18, 2007 6:29 AM in response to CoolDad

An update. I tried importing video to Final Cut Pro that was recorded at 1920x1080. It also stretched it to 2560x1080. I can't seem to determine if it is the camera that is setting incorrect flags or it is Apple's algorithm that is stretching all AVCHD imports because it usually deals with 1440x1080.

Is there another AVCHD camera out there that records in full 1980x1080? If so, has anyone tried importing it to either iMovie or FCP? I would be interested in the findings.

I really like the picture quality of the SD5 camera. The only thing I am not sold on is the size of the imported files once they are converted to AIC or Apple 422. A 1 minute video expands to approx. a 1GB file. It was not much different when I used the 1440 modes. So a very large external drive is a must if you want to do HD movies. For now I have been backing up the raw AVCHD clips on DVD so I can just import as needed. I guess I could also down convert to a lower res, especially if I am only going to produce a regular DVD. The full res mostly comes into play if I want to do a higher res quicktime movie or eventually start producing HD DVDs. But I will need to wait for a nice apple compatible burner and will have to use DVD Pro to create one.

Hope the info is useful.

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Answer 8

Sep 18, 2007 12:30 PM in response to CoolDad

Thanks for posting this info. I am thinking of buying this camcorder, but I am waiting to see if Panasonic resolves this issue.

...Or maybe go with the Panasonic SD1 if the price drops.

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Answer 9

Sep 18, 2007 12:42 PM in response to CoolDad

I just got an SD5 as well and would love to confirm and observe what everyone is talking about! I have been messing around for two hours now and cannot get the media off the camera into imovie 08 directly through the camera or through the card reader.

Any help in doing this would be very much appreciated!

Thanks!

Rob

rob@outofthedeep.com

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Answer 10

CoolDad Author

Level 1

5 points

Sep 18, 2007 12:51 PM in response to Robert Paterson

Does your iMovie see the clips and it just cannot import it, or are you saying that you cannot even see the camera or card reader? If it is the latter make sure you are connecting the camera or reader before you start iMovie. I have heard people have been having problems if they start iMovie before the camera is up.

Another items I have read is that it is recommended you format the card with the camera before you start using it.

Hope those help.

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Answer 11

Sep 18, 2007 3:32 PM in response to CoolDad

http://panasonic.co.jp/pavc/global/videocamera/hd/global/products/hdc-sd5/specif ications.html

Found the above link on the Panasonic Worldwide Site. It only mentions support on Windows computers. Odd since the SD1 worked well on Mac.

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Answer 12

Sep 18, 2007 7:06 PM in response to AppleMan1958

Until Apple fixes this issue, I've gone ahead and selected the 1440 X 1080 resolution in the SD5. This seems to work just fine. So that might be an alternative to buying the SD1.

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Answer 13

Sep 19, 2007 10:42 AM in response to CoolDad

I received the following reply from Panasonic Customer Service. They are obviously clueless, but I had hopes that they would contact the Product Managers. It may not be a huge issue since you can use the SD5 as is in 1440x1080.

--------------------
Dear Panasonic Customer,

Thank you for your inquiry regarding the Panasonic HDCSD5. We apologize for the delay in providing you with a reply to your inquiry and we hope that this delay has not caused you any inconvenience. At this time we do not have any information on Panasonic release Mac compatible software for the HDCSD5.

If we can further assist you please call the Panasonic Customer Call Center at 1-800-211-7262. For your convenience, the call center is open from 9:00 a.m. to 9:00 P.M. (est.; Mon-Fri) and from 10:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. (est.; Sat/Sun).

Best Regards,
Panasonic Consumer 14

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Answer 14

Sep 20, 2007 6:37 AM in response to Kent Wien

I will be getting my SD5 today, and my son got his yesterday. We have been following these posts with interest. My son's SD5 full 1920 imports into iMovie, of course, are squished, and the 1440 are ok as noted in the posts.

For an upcoming wedding, I am thinking about using the 1440 mode, so that I know I will be able to dump into iMovie and quickly "share" stuff without going thru all hoops (and possible quality issues) to adjust for the "squish".

The QUESTIONS are these:

1 - on the SD1, you can about 80 minutes of it's 1440 footage on an 8Gb card; and on the SD5, when you set it to 1440 (1440N), you get about 125 minutes on the 8Gb card! WHAT GIVES?! Is the SD5 doing more compression with it's 1440, and it's 1440 footage will be of lessor quality than the SD1 footage?

2 - my son made some tests with 1440 and 1920 footage, and on the computer screen, I can see virtually no difference. I am sure on a large HDTV you will see some difference.....but just how much would one expect?

thanks,
Bruce

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Answer 15

Sep 20, 2007 7:08 AM in response to Bruce Sprague

Bruce, I don't have the same camera as you, but if the SD5 uses less space than the SD1 for the same resolution, I would have to say the difference is likely due to quality settings. On my camera if I shoot HD, I have 3 quality settings: LP = 9 Mbps, XP = 12 Mbps, HXP = 15 Mbps. Perhaps you are using different settings on each camera

If you intend using im08 to edit, I'm afraid on the hardware you have the best output will be 960 x 540 and so any difference between 1080i non square pixel capture (1440 x1080) and 1080i square pixel capture (1920 x 1080) is unlikely to be carried over into your export.

In general terms your computer monitor is likely to be much more unforgiving when it comes to differences in quality than your tv is. If you edit in im06 or other software that doesn't restrict your hardware to 960 x 540 and you see very little difference on your monitor, you are likely to see even less difference when it's seen on a tv.

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