SOSD: New Superdrive Woe

Question

Level 1

45 points

SOSD: New Superdrive Woe

I just replaced my original Pioneer DVR-103 Superdrive with a new NEC ND-3540A. Using Toast 7, the first CD-R I burned worked without a hitch. The second disc failed (coaster) with 3 seconds to go, as did the third. (I don't recall the error message I received, but it stayed constant). I looked around in Toast, and all seemed well. I looked in SysProf, and all seemed well with the new NEC drive. Just to be safe, I ran patch burn, although I know there is native support for the NEC superdrive in Tiger. After all that, CD-R #4 failed with 3 seconds to go in Toast, so I went into Finder and tried to burn from there, but had a similarly unsuccessful result. All the media were the same (Imation CD-R's). All the coasters uniformly formatted until the very end of the disc (about 1cm of space remains at the edge of all discs -- where the formatting stopped). The amount of data I was trying to save was the same throughout (600 - 650MB), although I did try different combinations of files in case the data I was attempting to save was somehow corrupted. Soooo, I'm baffled. Has the drive gone bad after one disc?

I know the NEC drive comes highly recommended by folks here at discussions, but I think I might have gotten a bum specimen. If anyone can help me identify my problem, or offer any solutions, I would be very, very grateful.

What I can't figure out is, why did the first CD-R burn with no problem when subsequent discs failed? Why do the discs burn until the tantalizing last cm or so?

Here are the drive specs from SysProf (the last line is a bit mysterious to me):
_NEC DVD_RW ND-3540A:

Firmware Revision: 1.01
Interconnect: ATAPI
Burn Support: Yes (Vendor Supported)
Profile Path: /Library/DiscRecording/DeviceProfiles/PatchBurn- necdvdrwnd3540a.drprofile
Cache: 2048 KB
Reads DVD: Yes
CD-Write: -R, -RW
DVD-Write: -R, -RW, +R, +RW, +R DL
Burn Underrun Protection CD: Yes
Burn Underrun Protection DVD: Yes
Write Strategies: CD-TAO, CD-SAO, CD-Raw, DVD-DAO
Media: No

Posted on Sep 21, 2005 4:43 PM

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Answer 1

Sep 21, 2005 7:29 PM in response to Mark Swetz

Hi
I have the same drive and everything works fine in toast 6 and 7
Looking into the system profiler everything looks the same as mine does with the exception of the end where your shows:
Media: No
I have this:
Media:
Media Type: DVD-ROM
Blank: No
Erasable: No
Overwritable: No
Appendable: No

I guess the question is whether you are using the newest Patchburn utility or if your media is bad.

I would reinstall Patchburn fresh of version tracker and if this does not work try a different brand of CD.
Hope this helps a bit.

Duke

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Answer 2

Mark Swetz Author

Level 1

45 points

Sep 22, 2005 1:49 AM in response to Dukeblue91

Duke--

Thanks for your reply. Before I used patchburn (latest version) my SysProf looked identical to yours. The problem stayed the same with & without the patchburn "fix". I should also mention that I restarted the computer twice (during all the coaster making) to see if that had anything to do with the drive's errors; this included a restart after the patchburn install.

I will try a different brand of media, but again come back to the question of why it worked once with Imation, and not subsequently.

Any other ideas?

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Answer 3

Sep 22, 2005 5:30 PM in response to Mark Swetz

Hi Mark,

Imation sometimes causes issues. It is possible that you only got the first burn done because you were lucky :)!

Because of these types of issues, I have gone off Imation, and tend to use Verbatim.

Cheers!

Karl

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Answer 4

Mark Swetz Author

Level 1

45 points

Sep 25, 2005 10:06 AM in response to Karl Texler

Karl--

Thanks for your suggestion of changing media, which I will try. The plot thickens, however...

I have been able to watch commercial DVD's with the NEC drive, although the success rate is not 100%; using Apple's DVD player software, the program has crashed 3-4 times out of 10, usually after successfully watching an hour or so of a DVD.

Coincidentally, I have been reformatting & cleaning my G4 (adding HD's, archiving, etc.) and the Superdrive replacement was part of this year's long process (almost the last step). Because of my new HD's, I did a clean install of Tiger (since the original post of this thread) in case there was a software conflict with the NEC Superdrive. Still, the performance of the drive confounds me.

It has (generally) worked reading all the installation discs and DVD's I have, in the sense that I have ultimately been able to install everything that I needed to. During this process however, Finder has crashed more in the week since the new Tiger & Software install than in the previous five years I have had the G4. I cracked open the case again and attached the NEC drive with another section of the ribbon cable (the one that would normally go to an add-on ZIP drive) in case the cable connection was at fault... no noticible difference.

Finder & DVD Player are not the only programs that don't like this drive either (in addition to Toast 7 & the Imation media). Without any noticible pattern, when a program needs to 'find' the drive, I sometimes have problems: e.g. setting up iTunes for myself, no problem, but it crashed when I was setting up 'Burning' preferences for another user.

Obviously, the drive has problems. What I don't get is why. Is it a software issue? Something with the cables? Something with the drive itself? Is this something that might be remedied by purchasing a new serial card? To make this that much more aggravating, I bought the NEC drive (from newegg) on a recent trip to the US and I am now back home in Spain where contacting any kind of customer service from NEC or the vendor is problematic at best. I turn to Apple discussions as my best hope of finding a solution...

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Answer 5

Sep 27, 2005 9:07 PM in response to Karl Texler

Karl:

Just an observation... seems like there's a pattern with some problematic new drives that work once, then fail to work properly on subsequent attempts to do things. I don't know why, but I tend to think that a bad preference file or cache or something is being generated as soon as the drive is first used, preventing further use. If this is so, it doesn't solve the root cause of the problem, but perhaps explains why it works once and only once when this occurs...

Gary

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Answer 6

Sep 27, 2005 9:48 PM in response to Mark Swetz

Hi Mark!

I looked at this previously, but was initially a bit perplexed by the problem, so pardon me for not jumping into the fray right away, so to speak.

Please switch the ribbon cable back to using the end connection, which is the master position and is where the optical drive needs to be. It's important to configure it this way. Also, recheck your NECs jumper pin settings to insure it is jumpered as master, which is equally critical.

The problem you're experiencing could be due to improper configuration. (Hard drives sometimes do simiar things when set wrong. Most of the time, they simply aren't recognized, but sometimes they'll actually boot and run, then the strangeness occurs, usually followed down the line by some nasty data or directory corruption.) Let's hope you find that it's configured incorrectly, which would be a simple fix.

I've got my fingers crossed...

Gary

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Answer 7

Mark Swetz Author

Level 1

45 points

Sep 29, 2005 6:57 AM in response to Majordadusma

Gary--

Good to see you & your wisdom here. Thanks for jumping in! : )

I reset the ribbon cable to its original position and double-checked that the optical drive was set to master (it was). Although the drive still does not like CD-R's, I only have (a lot of) Imations in the house at the moment, so I will chalk that bad experience to the NEC not liking that particular disc manufacturer. I have been able to successfully burn a few HP DVD-R's for data, but not yet for video; I will report back here when I am able to try different makes of CD-R's & DVD-R's.

Regrettably, my Finder problem continues. Without seeing an obvious reason that the NEC drive would cause this, I am leaning towards the belief that coincidentally (?) the Finder started getting twitchy independent of any upgrades I may have done... this may be wishful thinking on my part, but I will try to figure out a pattern for the Finder crashes and post a new thread when I do.

The moral of the story, at least at this early stage, is that my NEC drive did not like Imation CD-R's, which is what I had done the bulk of my data, etc. recording on. Bad for me, with a case full of Imations, but at least the NEC works to burn DVD's... I will be making some video DVD's with Verbatim discs this weekend and will report back if there are any problems with those.

If anyone has had a similar experience with this NEC drive and problems with Finder crashing randomly, please let me know your experiences and solutions.

Thanks again to all who helped me with this issue. See you in a future post thread re: Finder problems!

-Mark

ps-- I don't trust my NEC drive just yet, but at least now I don't want to throw it out the window. I may be back on this thread if things don't go well with the verbatim discs. Ironically, I chose the NEC drive because the reviews on this discussions board were uniformly positive, including someone's mention that the drive would burn on any media available. If someone is reading this & thinking about the NEC drive, be aware that my experience has not been the best. It might just be Imation discs, but the jury is still out...

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Answer 8

Sep 29, 2005 3:06 PM in response to Mark Swetz

Hello,

Is your G4 dual800 an upgrade or original QS ?

I thought QS optical drives pin settings should be set to CS (control slave) not Master.

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Answer 9

Sep 30, 2005 12:53 AM in response to Jeff Neilson

Hi, Jeff!

Actually, Mark's 800Mhz DP Mac is most likely an MDD model, rather than a modified QS. In either case, a single optical drive should be connected as Master on the ATA/3 bus. A second optical drive (for an MDD or FW 800 Mac or case-modified, pre-MDD G4) would be connected as slave on that bus. There may be a specific drive brand that specifies otherwise, but I don't know of any.

Also, If this helps for general info, just remember that pre-MDD Macs do not use cable-select (CS) for anything, but instead use Master/Slave pin settings, coupled with the appropriate connection on a ribbon cable (Master always on the end connector). Some hard drive brands, like Hitachi/IBM and Western Digital, have variants to the Master pin setting, like Single Drive or Single Master, which sometimes confuses folks... Consider these as variant pin settings of the generic term "Master" and it's easier to understand, at least for me.

MDD and FW800 models support the use of CS pin settings for hard drives. When CS is used, Master and Slave is determined solely by the position of a drive on the ribbon cable, with the Master always being connected to the end connector. The Mac does the rest automatically.

That's my "layman's" understanding of how this works.

Regards,
Gary

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Answer 10

Sep 30, 2005 7:27 AM in response to Majordadusma

Hi, Gary..

Thanks for pointing that out but I understand all that stuff. I build & repair peecees for a living.

I had thought that QS had to use CS. Maybe it was just for their HD's. I am trying to find where I had seen it at. If I was under the wrong impression for QS, please forgive me.

Just trying to figure at what is go on w/ Marks NEC drive. That is just weird at the moment. I have used quite a few of those drives & never had a problem.

We all know starting at the beginning trying to pinpoint a problem. : (

Hope he posts back w/ more info.

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Answer 11

Mark Swetz Author

Level 1

45 points

Sep 30, 2005 11:01 AM in response to Jeff Neilson

Hi Jeff--

Thanks for joining this thread. Despite my rosy attempt to close this case, it ain't over yet... things still don't work like I imagine they should with the NEC drive.

I know I should know my model, but I don't. The logic board & processors have never been upgraded. I realize I can look somewhere online to pin down my model, and can do that if needed, but I'll throw this info at you first from my SysProf:

Machine Name: Power Mac G4
Machine Model: PowerMac3,5
CPU Type: PowerPC G4 (2.1)
Number Of CPUs: 2
CPU Speed: 800 MHz
L2 Cache (per CPU): 256 KB
L3 Cache (per CPU): 2 MB
Memory: 1.5 GB
Bus Speed: 133 MHz
Boot ROM Version: 4.2.5f1

The original optical drive (Pioneer DVR-103) was set for master, for what it's worth.

While I'm cutting & pasting, here are the error messages Toast 7 gave me (many times), re: the Imation media. (this particular round was from my last attempt, just prior to my last post):

The drive reported an error:
Sense Key = MEDIUM ERROR
Sense Code = 0x0C
WRITE ERROR

The drive reported an error:
Sense Key = ILLEGAL REQUEST
Sense Code = 0x72, 0x04
EMPTY OR PARTIALLY WRITTEN RESERVED TRACK

The disc failed to be written.

---------

I didn't have the presence of mind to copy the error message when I tried to burn a CD-R with finder, but I can sacrifice a disc if this info would help.

The drive continues to act strange. The latest oddity is that it will read some program files off a DVD, but on two separate occasions it fails to read all the data; e.g. when opening the disc, Finder gives the installer a generic (blank white rectangle with the shortcut symbol in the corner) shortcut icon and says that the original file can't be found -- I know the discs are alright, because my iBook has no problems reading them.

Also, the NEC seems able to read Imation media, but not write on them.

I have yet to try burning the Verbatim DVD's I mentioned previously, but will be at it this weekend. I may be able to try one this evening & will write back with more info as soon as I discover anything new.

One piece of info I have omitted, but is probably important, is that changing the optical drives was not easy. The original Pioneer drive is a monster (length wise, especially compared to the NEC) & barely had any clearance behind to remove the cables. Usually I am very careful about removing cables, but I may have accidentally/unwittingly damaged the ribbon cable when trying to remove it from the Pioneer. That was one reason I tried attaching the drive to the ZIP section of the cable, but there was no noticible difference... still, could the cable be a suspect? (when I last cracked the case to see if the NEC was set to master, I inspected the cable & pins and all looked OK, but I'm no expert). I would think that if the cable was damaged, the drive wouldn't work at all; my drive works (when it wants to) and instead is just frustratingly discriminatory & unpredictable.

Gary-- If there is a preference or cache file I can dig around in/copy to test your theory, let me know & I'll post it. I wouldn't know where to look for those things, but it sounds promising!

Finder continues to crash (not chronically, but a ridiculous amount for OSX), even when I use programs that have nothing to do with the drive. In my head, a bad cache or preference file would explain why Finder has suddenly decided to get twitchy.

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Answer 12

Sep 30, 2005 3:54 PM in response to Jeff Neilson

Jeff & Mark:

I have to stop looking at stuff at 2AM...

Mark, you have a stock QS 800MHz Dual Processor Mac. It's definitely not an MDD Mac, especially since Apple didn't make one with an 800 MHz DP (duh!). Mea Culpa!

Jeff, now I know who to go to when I run into a PC problem, which I get questions about all to often and about which I'm really pretty ignorant! 🙂

The somewhat rare "hybrid" QS 2002
b Education Model
is the only QS supporting cable select. Perhaps that's where you read something about its use. My standard QS 2002's owner's manual states that CS is not supported in my Mac, as does the following Apple article:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=31292

Gary

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Answer 13

Sep 30, 2005 4:10 PM in response to Mark Swetz

Mark:

Here's something you can try, but I'd hold off until after you first try different media:

Launch System Preferences and create a new user account (you can delete it later if you desire). Log into the new account and see if the problem is resolved. If so, do the following in the account where the problem occurs:

Go to User/Library/Preferences and trash the following preference files (all of these may not appear, but don't be concerned about it if they're all not there):

com.apple.finder.plists
com.apple.cdhub.plists
com.apple.digihub.plists
com.apple.sidebarlists.plists

Log out then log back in as the same user.

A more drastic approach is to do an Archive and Install, if the things above don't work.

I still am suspect about the hardware itself, especially the difference reported by your system profiler, Patchburn, etc. I'll try to get one of the drive "Gurus" to take a look at all of this...

Gary

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Answer 14

Oct 1, 2005 9:18 AM in response to Mark Swetz

Hi, Mark.

Your G4 is a QuickSilver model.

I replaced my dead 103 for the NEC ND-3520A a couple of months ago & it has burned everything I have thrown at it. You should not be having these problems. You added in some new insight of what maybe the cause of it. The ATA cable, that may have got damaged....

There are a couple of options I would take from here.

1. Get a new ATA cable, get the rounded one rather than the flat ribbon cable (better air flow). Remove the old cable & replace it w/ the new one. See if that takes care of the problem. The way you described it, it sounds like you may have damaged it & that would explain why it is not working right. They are only a couple of $.

2. Remove the NEC & put back in the Pioneer 103. Then see if you still have these problems that are going on. Then you would know if it is a hardware problem w/ the NEC & not the ATA cable, curroupt preferences or something else software/OS wise.

Good Luck,

Jeff....

ps. Gary chimed in for "Hussein" Hussein is the best helper... : )

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Answer 15

Oct 1, 2005 10:39 AM in response to Majordadusma

Hi, Gary.

Yea the 2am, posting syndrome... LOL ; )

Thanks, My computer shop pays the bills but my MAC is my joy & pride!!!!!
All my Audio/Video production is done on my MAC.

Here is article, I was thinking about. It just kind of poped in my head when I was reading about Mark's problems.

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=86150

Jeff....

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