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Level 4

1,427 points

Invalid Btree Header, 0, 0

I did the latest security updates and two DVD updates; repaired disk permissions after each one. Got fairly short reports and no problems. After all that I thought I'd do some maintenance, even though I've only had 10.4 for a couple weeks and not a lot of heavy use. Anyhow, I restarted to OS9 and ran DFA. It reported back with 'Invalid Btree Header, 0, 0" and then 'disk was repaired successfully'. Ran DFA five times with the same result; never did get 'disk appears to be ok'.

Tried to run DiskWarrior but apparently my v3.0.2 won't work. First time I ran DW the graph showed 30% out of order. Tried to rebuild but got an error that 'the original directory is too severely damaged...disk was not modified'. Restarted with the DW CD+C and it started up from the disk. This time the error was, '...can't be rebuilt...apparently you have a newer version...'. According to Alsoft, that message indicates that I need v3.0.3. I'll order the update from Alsoft.

In the meantime, I'm puzzled as to the DFA and DW reports about 'Btree' and 'severe' damage, and how my practivally new Tiger is '30% out of order'. I have downloaded WMP and RealPlayer for OS X. But I haven't had any problems. I haven't even gotten around to using iLife stuff. Just some browsing. I've also added a 256mb PC133 memory stick. Could that cause the DFA and DW reports? Speaking of the RAM, when I first installed it, Profiler called it PC133-333 and DIMM First Aid called it 7.5ns PC133-333. Today while in OS 9 ASP called it PC100-322S. I now have 512mb of memory.

Any ideas on what's going on here would be greatly appreciated.

David

Posted on Sep 28, 2005 10:27 AM

39 replies

Oct 4, 2005 10:55 PM in response to David Cun

David:

The beige DVR-110 is there for $45.99 plus $4 in shipping:

http://www.chiefvalue.com/app/productdetails.asp?submit=property&item=27-129-165

There's also a beige NEC 3540A for $42.99 plus $4 in shipping:

http://www.chiefvalue.com/app/productdetails.asp?submit=property&item=27-152-046

(Anyway, beige matches better than black...)

Glad we could all be of some help with this issue, and if I may be so bold and to speak for everybody here, we're really glad you're back up and running!

Gary

David Cun Author

Level 4

1,427 points

Oct 5, 2005 9:13 AM in response to Majordadusma

Gary:

Don't know what happened. When I went to check out, the price was more than the Dealmac deal. Anyhow, I got impatient, went to newegg and got the NEC 3540 for $39 check out price. Cool huh? It was supposedly a one day deal and I got checked out about 10mins before the special expired. 😀

I noticed one picture of a Pioneer showed an NEC mfg sticker on the back. And at xlr8yourmac data base, some said the NEC is quieter than the Pioneer. And now I get an email from Iomega for a refurb Iomega DVD-RW drive for $19. Amazing huh? I haven't check the xlr8 data base for Iomega....so....ce la vie.

Are you ready for another issue? Groan! I had the Quantum and Maxtor HD's going, but separately. I.E. when I went to install the Maxtor, I took the Quantum out, not knowing for sure at the time about how to install a 2nd HD in the Sawtooth. Anyhow, I have em both in now. Quantum on the bottom as master and the Maxtor on top as slave. Both are fully recognised by the Install DVD, Profiler and Finder>System Prefs and on the desktop. However, I can't get the puter to startup in the Quantum. Used Startup Disk in the Install DVD, Startup Disk in SysPrefs in both the Maxtor and the Quantum. Yep, it starts up with the Tiger vol on the Maxtor even tho I'm allowed to choose the Tiger vol in the Quantum. All the volumes from both the Quantum and the Maxtor show up on the desktop and in Finder, upper left column.

Should I start another thread or are you up to it? Lol!

Thx!

David

Oct 5, 2005 7:43 PM in response to David Cun

David:

What happens when you select the Quantum in System prefs>Startup Drive and then resatrt? (Nothing? Gray screen? Prohibitory icon/circle with slash? Plain blue screen? Blue screen with startup screen? etc.)

Are you certain of the jumper settings on the drives? The Quantum should be jumpered as Master and connected to the end connector of the ribbon cable. The Maxtor should be jumpered as Slave (remove the jumper completely) and connected to the inline connector on the ribbon cable.

After checking the configuration of the drives, do a PMU reset before closing up the Mac. Boot to the Startup Manager (hold down the option key at startup) and select/highlight the Quantum when the screen comes up. Click the arrow on the right to boot to it. Any luck now?

Gary

ps: Good buy on the NEC!

David Cun Author

Level 4

1,427 points

Oct 6, 2005 7:34 AM in response to Majordadusma

Hi Gary:

Did all that, but it always starts up in the Maxtor. No startup problems in that regard. The Quantum's three volumes show on the desktop and in the left column of Finder. And I can open the desktop icons/volumes of the Quantum (Tiger, Apps, OS 9).

I ask because I have the Quantum set up with 9 and other apps; and have done more stuff to the Tiger volume there as far as favorites, address book etc. On the Maxtor I'm trying to keep the Tiger volume simple and uncluttered and use for backup. Maybe I should reverse that....?...but I haven't installed 9 on the Maxtor. I only have two vols on it, Tiger and 'OtherStuff'.

BTW, I did some of my backups from the beige on 250ZIP disks and. alas, the Sawtooth has a 100ZIP drive. I found a 'orangemicro grappler' SCSI card pretty cheap on ebay. Another day or two before bidding ends. And I have my 300+ song iTunes backed up on a couple CD's but I'm waiting til I get this HD deal straightened out.

RE: the NEC. Can't wait. Sure appreciate your advice about NEC and Pioneer. I'm sure the Pioneer would have been a great buy also. The NEC just came up first on the price side that particular day. 😀

Man, CPU upgrades are expensive! I'm still shopping and watching and waiting for the ol' checkbook to have higher values in the balance column. But, $200-$400! Wow!

You're the greatest for hangin with me!

David

Oct 6, 2005 9:59 AM in response to David Cun

David:

Hmmm... strange that the Quantum system shows in the Startup Manager, but boots to the other startup drive. I'm wondering if there's a problem with the OS on the Quantum which perhaps an archive and install will resolve...

Hang in there a bit for a second opinion. I may be missing something here and don't want to send you down the wrong road...

Gary

David Cun Author

Level 4

1,427 points

Oct 7, 2005 9:14 AM in response to Majordadusma

Gary:
Just a little leary of continuing any app additions (eg load iTune libray) until all is well and functioning properly.

I believe I'll go ahead and load CCC and Macaroni.

David Cun Author

Level 4

1,427 points

Oct 10, 2005 10:02 AM in response to David Cun

Hi Gary:

Is it my breath or underarm deodorant? I had hoped to give you some relief and posted in 'expansion' ("Two HD's..."). Neither it nor another post about my G4 not shuttting down have even been looked at. Have I offended some one? I appologise profusely if that is the case! Where'd I go wrong?
😉

David

David Cun Author

Level 4

1,427 points

Oct 10, 2005 5:20 PM in response to David Cun

And FYI, I also can't start up in the OS9 volume on the Quantum. When I hold down the Option key, it goes to a blue screen with a half circle, then the Maxtor icon, then a right arrow. No other choices. Just boots to the Maxtor, no grey screen problems or anything. I can open the OS9 volume and look through its contents. Same for the Tiger volume (on the Quantum).

Oct 12, 2005 8:05 AM in response to David Cun

David:

Regarding no responses to a new thread, maybe it's because you're from Georgia and everyone is upset over the prices of pecans nowadays!!! Seriously, most often, when a post isn't replied to, it's because the Members don't have an answer for you... The thread soon gets buried, with the volume of new posts here. I've run into the same thing a half-dozen times or so. It sometimes feels like once you hit a couple of hundred posts on the Discussions, there's an assumption that you should already have all the answers to everything! (Hah!) Sometimes posting in a completely different section, like the OSX section, will prompt a response, since different Members tend to "hang out" in different areas here, so there's a fresh set of eyes looking at the thread.

Gary

Oct 12, 2005 8:19 AM in response to David Cun

David:

If the Quantum won't boot to either OS, either the drive is configured improperly, the drive is bad, the installations are bad, the startup memory needs to be reset (PMU reset), or the directory is corrupted. I can't imagine that it could be anything else, although this is plenty enough...

You might try wiping the drive clean, writing zeroes to it, and reinstalling OS9 on it. Then reset the PMU and try the Option Boot to the startup Manager again. If you're positive that the drive is jumpered properly, it should boot. If it still doesn't boot, perhaps it's time to retire the drive.

Gary

Oct 12, 2005 8:34 AM in response to David Cun

Hi, David -

Adding some to Gary's comments, re the OS 9 (Quantum) non-boot issue -

The usual reasons for an OS 9 install to not boot are -

The drive is not jumpered correctly. You've addressed that.

***

The OS install is not complete, not viable for some reason, or has become unblessed. Since it appears in Startup Disk as a selectable boot OS, it should be viable - blessed and able to boot the machine.

However, if you have an OS 9 Install CD in the same version as the installed OS 9, you can try doing a Custom Install (re-install) of just the Core System components (doing so removes nothing, will not delete data) -

Boot to the CD, run the installer - when you select your hard drive and click okay, you'll be asked what you want to do - click Reinstall. On the last page of the installer, the page with the Start button, click the Customize button.

On the new page, uncheck everything (make sure they have neither checks or dashes) except Mac OS 9.x; to the right of it is a pulldown menu, preset at Recommended Installation - select Customized Installation from that.

In the new window, uncheck everything except the first item, Core System Software - again, make sure none of the other boxes have checks or dashes. Click Okay, click Start. That will re-install the System, Finder, and other basic OS files, and nothing else.

***

Sometimes when hardware is added or removed the Mac itself loses contact with what's there (it forgets); this is separate from what a running OS may 'see' (such as the OS 9 appearing in Startup Disk). The usual fix for that is to reset the PRAM.

***

Problems with the disk directory or structure can prohibit the machine from booting to what is otherwise a healthy install of OS 9. Running Disk First Aid from an OS 9 Install CD while booted to the CD should be able to spot any such issues. DiskWarrior should also be able to pick up them up, and to make full repairs.

***

If the drive was last formatted using OSX's Disk Utility, and the option to install OS 9 drivers was not selected, then the drive will not be mountable by OS 9 nor bootable to an OS 9 Install on it.
Article #106849 - Disk Is Available in Mac OS X But Not in Mac OS 9

This situation will not prevent OSX's Startup Disk control pane from allowing that volume to be selected; OSX is not coded to check for the presence of OS 9 drivers.

However, if the drive appears on the desktop when the machine is booted to an OS 9 Install CD, this issue is not the case.

David Cun Author

Level 4

1,427 points

Oct 13, 2005 7:09 AM in response to Majordadusma

But our peaches are still cheap! Not to mention some of our Mac users. AND we're in the Top Fifty in the country in education. AND we're in the top five in high school drop-out rates. 😀

When I first set up the Quantum and Tiger I did install OS9 drivers from the menu in the installer. What gets me is I had it going with minimal app additions. Almost pristine except for SW updates and Logitech Mouseware. The Q was working fine until I added the Maxtor. So, I query how it might get unblessed or whatever from just adding a HD...?...

This morning before trying Don's suggestion about reinstalling OS9 Core System, I disconnected the Maxtor; didn't touch the Quantum, and booted up. I got a blue screen with a file folder and flashing question mark (Has that replaced the flashing floppy icon?). Subsequently tried all the jumper settings and Master and CS are the only settings in which I could get Profiler from the OS9 CD and the 10.4 DVD to show the three volumes. AND I did Repair Permissions and Disk to the Quantum Tiger volume. At least now I'm certain about the jumper settings; eg last pins for Master.

But why the flashing question mark when I can open the Tiger and OS9 icons(partitions) from Finder and see everything in them; eg System Folder, apps etc etc?

Anyhow, please bear with me while I now log off and try the Core System thang.

David Cun Author

Level 4

1,427 points

Oct 13, 2005 9:28 AM in response to David Cun

Eureka!

I started up with the OS9 CD. Got to the 'destination' part and I became quite chagrined when the Quantum's volumes didn't show up. However, I installed OS9 and Java scripts only on the second partition of the Maxtor (Tiger on the other). 'Core System' was not one of the choices. Finished and restarted.

Hotdam! Started up in the Quantum's OS9 vol. All vols show on desktop. Went to Startup control panel, chose Quantum's Tiger vol. It started up in that vol. Again, all systems go.

I reckon Tiger needed OS9 to operate the whole kitncabootle.

Now...I have the new NEC DVD-R/RW drive and will install it. Then I can update DW and run it correctly.

And...now maybe a hint or two about what to do with the HD's, as we now have OS's on both and minimal apps. EG anything to do to make the Quantum lean and mean for use as a backup destination?

Thanks very much for hanging in there with me!

David

Oct 13, 2005 11:27 AM in response to David Cun

David:

Talk about being perplexed! My puny brain gets lost trying to figure out what has happened here! I sure hope Don or one of the other Folks can shed some light on this...

It's great that the Mac is finally working with both drives operational, however! It just really bugs me that the root cause of the problem is still a question, although it's hard to argue with success...

Are you back to being jumpered as Master-Slave (as it's supposed to be configured) versus Master/Cable Select?

How large is the Maxtor? The Quantum? Which is now jumpered as Master and on the end connector of the ribbon cable? You have minimal installs of OS X and OS 9 on different partitions on both drives, with a third partition for data on the Quantum right now, right?

If you're going to use the smaller Quantum drive for backup, I'd consider 3 partitions, based on the estimated future size of the space used (versus free) on your working OS X and OS 9 volumes plus about 10% more for operating space, the rest being allocated to the third partition which can be used for temporary data storage, a scratch disk for video/audio/photoshop, defragging large files/projects, etc., which I'd try to keep clean and use as a temporary drive, as needed.

I'd set up the Maxtor with two partitions, a large one for OS X and a small one for OS 9. I'd use SuperDuper or CarbonCopyCloner to clone my OS X volume from the Maxtor to the Quantum after everything has been loaded on the Maxtor. You can do a simple copy of the OS 9 folders from the Maxtor to the Quantum and don't have to clone your OS9 setup as you do when you move OS X.

You're the one who really has to determine how to set up the drives/partitions because it really depends on how you use the Mac and what your preferences are. I'll say that fewer, larger partitions is generally a better approach than multiple, smaller ones, err on the side of them being larger than necessary when you set them up, and include free space/operating space in your calculations when setting up boot volumes. Include partitions on a separate drive for backing up/cloning the OS volumes. Don't create permanent storage partitions that you have nowhere to back them up to. These things are perhaps the most common pitfalls that folks encounter.

Gary

David Cun Author

Level 4

1,427 points

Oct 14, 2005 7:13 AM in response to Majordadusma

Hi Gary:

First, thanks to Don also for invaluable assistance. And Fangsuede.

For some reason I thought Tiger didn't need an OS 9 install like previous OS X versions. So, it appears that installing 9 did the trick.

(Gonna use some shorthand: Q=Quantum; M=Maxtor) Yep, Q on the bottom as master and M on top as slave.

RE Size: The M is 160GB (128nominal) and the Q is 20GB

RE Partitions: The M has two partitions; 30GB with Tiger on it and 'other' has 97, with OS 9 on it. In that respect I guess it's too late for your suggestion of having X on the larger partition. Be that as it may, don't you believe 30G is aplenty? It's too late now...lol.

The Q has three partitions. Tiger on the first one with 9GB; OS9 on the second with 3GB; and 'Apps' has 7GB

I have an older version of FWB's Hard Disk Toolkit; but I'd be fearful to use it to try to resize the partitions.

What's a scratch disk? Why that name?

Sure appreciate all your help!

David

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