Typing problem

Great Andy, Please keep us updated.

I am also in touch with Apple support. Actually, I just got off the phone with them. I spoke with them about two weeks ago, and they promised to call me back, which they did not, so I called, just to find out that there was no registred case, at least the guy couldn't find it.

I am pretty convinced that the problem is related to the keyboard driver and some command "cahches" storing and calling the charachter after keypress not getting flushed fast enough so the character is repeated in next polling or something like that. Just my theory. I have tried clean reinstalls, Key repeate rate settings, Universal Access, flushing all caches including font caches, looking for corrupt fonts, resetting PMU, NVRAM etc and tons of other stuff. Nothing helps. When it is at its worst, I can hit one key very controlled and two letters show up. Many people probably believe that it is related to bad typing, but it is clearly not. And I have never ever experienced this on a PC which I use all day at work.

The problem is not present when booted in to Open Firmware where the keyboard driver is not loaded. In single user mode, the driver is loaded and the problem shows up. The problem is also present regardless of which keyboard I use. I have not experienced the problem in OS 9 (on my trusty old cube) but on the same machine, the problem have been present in OSX, either from 10.1 or 10.2, not sure when it was introduced.

The bug is erratic and therefore more difficult to troubleshoot. I sincerely hope Apple finds the solution SOON. As you say, the bug totally destroys the thought process. When the bug "is on a roll", spewing out letters left and right, I can't get any decent work done. The bug is completely destroying productivity.

Have any of you also noted that sometimes, when pressing a key, you get no letter, just like its stuttering and does not register the keypress? This is less prominent and could be my typing, but I never experience this on my PC.

BTW, this is written from my work PC. Alas, no problems...

Geir,

Yes I have noticed occasional failure of letters to appear even though the key was struck firmly. I just noticed that your machine is a PowerBook. Interesting, my machine is a G5 (just had to strike the 5 twice to get the character!) So it is not likely hardware dependent. Your theory seems plausible. I hope Apple comes up with an update to fix this.

Andy H

After zeroing my HD reinstalling 10.3.4 and updating to 10.3.5 last night I still had repeat character problems. I experimented with the universal access "slow keys acceptance delay" and thought I had the problem under control. However, late today the keyboard became unresponsive and the mouse cursor disappeared while typing. I had to shutdown from the power button and restart.

After talking to the tech at my authorized repair center, we decided to rezero and experiment in 10.3.4 to see if the problem could be duplicated. After zeroing of my HD and reinstalling back to 10.3.4 I still had the problem of repeating characters with default keyboard settings. However, I was able to find a "slow keys acceptance delay" setting in the universal access preference that seemed to work.

Later tonight combined update 10.3.6 became available so I downloaded and installed it to see if default keyboard settings would work. At first it seemed OK, but after some typing the repeat characters came back to some extent. I have again experimented with "slow keys acceptance delay" settings and found a way to minimize the issue.

Apple is planning to provide me with a new keyboard Monday 11/8 and I will see how that affects typing. I must admit that I am doubtful about a clean definitive fix that will allow using default keyboard settings.

Andy H

Has anyone noticedd whether or not the repeat characters are related to a particular font or family of fonts? Just curious and I have not done any sort of controllled testing.

Also, has anyone noticed improvement after applying 10.3.6? I think I have, but it may just be "wishful thinking" or something likke that.

Thanks,

Andy H

I had the problem, but in my case I think it was the keyboard. As soon as I switched back to my old AppleDesign Pro keyboard the repeated characters stopped.

I have been an Apple user since 1984. I believe Apple stopped making decent keyboards (and mice) between my 7500 and G4 (1995-1999). I have just resigned myself to buying a different keyboard and mouse. I had the same problem with my G5 keyboard and bought a Macally Icekey. It is tactile and a MUCH BETTER keyboard. I prefer the higher profile of the Apple keyboard but this one is much more error free. And as far as mice, I will never go back to a one-button mouse. They will have to pry my scroll-wheel mouse from my cold dead fingers.

this might be silly, but do the Non-Apple keyboards allow you to work with the "eject" key and volume controls?
I know the apple keyboards that come with the G5's are only made for the G5.

As far as the double characters, I was having this problem ONLY when I worked in Pagemaker 7 in the Classic Mode. (on my G4).

Have all the preferences been thrown away for the classic apps you may or may not be using?
When was the last modified date on the AppleADBKeyboard.kext (in the system>library>extensions folder)? Mine says May 12, 2004

and last, have you installed all the security updates?

- so -
• trash preferences for any program it is prevalent in
• ensure all updates are done
• all memory is seated properly
• no duplicate fonts active
• all system fonts are correct in the system>library>fonts (and no extras added here...font book will add fonts to this folder and bog your system down)
• Keyboard is a Known good keyboard - have you tried another keyboard in this place) if it is, this it's not the KEYBOARD
• Run Disk Utility
• Zap your PRAM
• Rebuild your Classic Support

My problem in Pagemaker 7 has gone away since doing security updates, and discontinuing the use of fontbook (i can't stand this font management system). and doing my weekly computer maintenance for optimum usage.

Good luck! If something else works, please tell us! I have a G5 at work that hasn't encountered this problem as yet....fingers crossed.

-Purfx

Just to let everybody know that there are many people who don't have this problem. I am a very fast touch typist and I almost never have double input characters (and if I do, it's usually my fault and I know it when it happens). I use several different Macs and I've never seen this problem.

Not to say it doesn't exist though.

Has anybody tried removing their keyboard and taking it into a Mac Store (or CompUSA) to try it on one of their demo computers? Or, for that matter, could you try your Mac keyboard on a poor friends PC? (would this even work?) This would help figure out if it was a keyboard issue, a software issue, or a personal issue.

Hope you all figure this out. I can see where this would be a terrific headache!

Update - just got new keyboard from apple and the repeat characcter problem still exists. It shows up in mail, text edit, Word and while posting this message. I don't therefore believe the issue is completely hardware - at least not thee keyboardd. However, I am typing without the key acceptance ddelay turned on in the universal acccess preference. Oh well - back to Apple Care.

Anddy H

I just finished a phone call with a senior product specialist at Apple. After getting my information, he asked me what my issue was and I told him about the repeating characters problem. He said (and I quote) "oh you have that problem too! I have that on the machine I am using now." He then went over all of the steps that have already been taken and took extensive notes on the issue. I included some of the experience reported in this group as well. After a lengthy discussion, the tech put me on hold to research his resource data base. When he returned to the phone, he indicated that there are no references focusing on the problem and that he would escalate it to engineering to begin a formal assessment. I hope this "gets the ball rolling" on a permanent fix. I was encouraged by the positive response from the tech and the fact that Apple has the issue in house on at least one of their machines.

Andy H

That is great news Andy. I will try to call apple again tomorrow to see if I may help getting the ball rolling.

Will keep you informed.

Called Apple today. They informed me that they were still looking in to the problem and that it would be escalated, presumably this means that it will be sent to the next level, whatever that is.

The tech guy also infomed me that they had some new keyboards that apparantly did not suffer from this bug (it was fixed). I have a hard time believeing that this is a physical bug related to the keyboard, considering it affecting all sorts of keyboards and macs, even 3rd party keyboards as the tactile keyboard. Though I do believe that some bluetooth keyboards have a similar bug where keys hang, resulting in endless spaces or rows of characters, but this is supposedly due to connection problems and fixed with the firmware updates for keyboard and bluetooth adapter. It is different issue and hardly related to the double characters problem.

Lets see what Apple comes up with, but keep up the pressure.

Geir,

I too do not believe it iss a physical bug. I've replaced the keyboard and the logic board and the issue remains the same.

I also had another related matter come up last night. After I adjusted the key accceptancce delay in the universal access preference, my keyboard and mouse became inactive (freeze). I pluggedd the mouse into the back of my monitor andd it became acctive. While attempting to adjust the key acceptance delay back to where it was prior to the freeze, the mouse again beccame unresponsive and I had to shut down with the power button. I experienced this type of freeze before my logic board was replaced, but didd not cconnect it with the key acceptance delay. Has anyone else had this occcur?

Anddy H

Can't say I have experienced any freeze while working with the Universal Access, but on the other side, I haven't tried them out after 10.3.6.