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Level 1

10 points

Mac Mini Airport Sporadic Reception

I've been dealing with the same issues for 2 months and 4 visits to the apple store. The problem is basically the same but slightly different than other posts on the same subject. I set up the Intel Mini in our room and once the high speed was hooked up to the house - fired up the base station extreme. I searched for the network and it refused to show up in the menu bar, however the Linksys from our neighbor across the street shows up quite well. I turned the airport off and back on several times until the base station shows up. I select the base station network and nothing happens. Not even an error dialogue. So I went back up to the Airport menu bar and the network disappears.

The base station is approximately 21' away in a wide open room configuration. I went to the next step and placed an airport express in the same room w/in 5' of the mini, set up to continue the base station network, and still nothing appears in the menu bar except the Linksys.

On the first visit to Apple they replaced the Airport Card. I took the mini home, same problem. I returned it to the store, I received a message that the computer works fine but I needed to bring in the base station for diagnostics.

I received a call this morning to tell me I could pick up both items, they are normal and working fine.

In the meantime, I've shared with the technicians that I have already reinstalled the software, updated any software or firmware for the mini and base station as well as repair any permissions and checked disk.

Also - I have a backup Mini PPC that I can use when the Intel is in the shop. I swapped units and the PPC mini works flawless. For the heck of it, I took my wife's MacBook into the same room, at the same location AND covered it with a cardboard box with a peep hole and still it picked up the signal with no fluctuation. Just for grins and giggles, I did the same thing with my Powerbook G4 with the same positive results.

Everything works except the Intel Mini. So I'm preparing myself to go pick up the Intel Mini, bring it home to try it again with the same results and ponder what the computer would look like as a planter because that's about what it is good for if it doesn't work.

Any ideas as to what my next step could be. As a last ditch effort, could I run an ethernet cable from my Airport Express to the mini and hopefully pick up an Ethernet signal.

Any thoughts or Ideas would be graciously accepted.

PowerBook G4; Mac Mini PPC; Mac Mini Intel: MacBook, Mac OS X (10.4.4)

Posted on Jan 8, 2008 6:49 AM

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Boece

Level 5

6,264 points

Posted on Jan 8, 2008 7:14 AM

In term of speed and reliability, wired ethernet is ALWAYS preferable to wireless -- so I would certainly consider that before relegating the Mini to "planter" status.

Unless the Apple store is pulling your chain with the reports of both your units testing fine, I think we have to seriously consider that there is some source of RF interference in your room.

What other wireless devices do you have nearby: cordless phones, baby monitors, wireless thermometers, bluetooth phone, headset, keyboard, etc?

(BTW thank you for posting this in a fresh thread with all the information laid out in a coherent fashion. Others might learn from this example ... )

Another measure I would try would be to set the airport base station to a radically different channel, and see if that helps. It may currently be set too close to the channel the neighbor's Linksys is using. You need to be at least 3 channel numbers apart to avoid all interference.

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20 replies

AndyO

Level 6

17,064 points

Jan 10, 2008 10:18 AM in response to Mark Gaipo

There is certainly a history of broadband performance variation between service providers, in terms of comparative download speeds between Macs and PCs with some ISPs, but that would not affect the connectivity users have to wifi networks in their own homes, since these are issues not really related to the internet connection at all. You could, for example, set up a wired or wifeless network without any 'uplink' to an ISP at all. The only time the ISP may have any influence is if they are the providers of the wireless base station/access point, in which case there is potential for it to influence connectivity to some degree if they specifically exclude Mac systems from any support at all - which is very rare indeed.

It's also worth noting that many of the ideas people have to improve wifi signal, which have commonly included aluminium foil, coat hangers etc, are more likely to detune the wifi antenna than assist it! The wifi antenna is tuned very tightly to match the narrow frequency band in which wifi operates. Any metallic object, particularly if it exhibits capacitive or inductive properties in the vicinity of the antenna or base station, will negatively impact signal strength of quality unless it is also very specifically tuned for the purpose. Lower power radio technology is a very complex and precise science!

Mark Gaipo Author

Level 1

10 points

Jan 14, 2008 2:04 PM in response to AndyO

Greetings -

Follow up to this project is as follows -

1. I asked Comcast to come in and check my lines. 3 coming in to the house from the main switch. Of all 3 lines 2 had noticeably better return data rates so I moved the base station to one of the better lines which coincidentally puts the base station in a direct line to the Intel Mini at a distance of 18'. Problem still exists with Intel Mini.

2. Hard reset Airport Express - reconfigured to bridge network. Installed Airport Express w/in 5' of Intel Mini. Same Problem Exists. If you access my shared folder previously listed I have all of this data from AP Grapher, including readings from my G4 PPC Powerbook at the same location.

3. Of interest, the Intel Mini kept jumping from the Base Station to the Express (witnessed in AP Grapher) acting quite erratic. The G4 PB, also picks up both sources but stays connected to one hardware item. Does my description make sense?

At this point - is the consensus that a problem does still exit with the Intel Mini or what steps would we recommend to move forward to the next step.

Your time is well appreciated.

AndyO

Level 6

17,064 points

Jan 15, 2008 9:00 AM in response to Mark Gaipo

I have to say that that's a tiny bit of a confusing collection of files, and it would have probably been easier to sift through if you had simply taken a shot of the same single connection with the mini and PB rather than introduce experimentation which adds clutter and makes it rather harder to wade through the results! Still, I can see what you're getting at - particularly since it's not at all easy to present coherent data at long range in these sort of situations!

To me, I think it is clear the mini is picking up a broadly similar level of signal, but the noise components in it make it rather less usable. Interestingly there are also pronounced TX rate variations which, given they don't relate to radically differing signal or 'usability' levels, would suggest the C2D mini is suffering directly from RF noise or electrical problems. The cyclic nature of it is 'picture 1' is quite astonishing, showing that the TX rate during that test was generally low, cyclically, though briefly, jumping up. Clearly that is not a reliable wifi connection! Signal, as shown in Pic 2, seems unusually erratic too, though this can be due to any number of influences, even people moving in the general vicinity, causing the wifi transmitter to be momentarily detuned or the receiver to be momentarily desensitized.

To cut a long story short, I think there is enough evidence there to identify the C2D mini as the main culprit, though I'm not so sure your wifi network is not also suffering extraneous RF noise too. If you take Picture 2 from the PB series as the reference point, indicating a not untypical, and certainly viable, wifi network, the results you get with the C2D mini are certainly poor, even allowing for a broadly similar apparent signal strength.

Mark Gaipo Author

Level 1

10 points

Jan 15, 2008 9:58 AM in response to AndyO

Andy, thank you for your time. Had you the opportunity to sit with me for a bit you would perhaps be better able to understand my very analytical approach to testing just about anything I could on either machine as comparison.

At this point, although the Mini is still inoperative, the testing and feedback is not only successful but substantiates that a problem does still exist. With the information here and the multitude of snapshots I have taken, it's worth taking it to the next step and call tech support and ask to send the mini in for further evaluation.

I want to thank you for your time and introduction to AP Grapher - a program I donated to (well worth it) and one that I have a lot to learn about.

Best Regards.

AndyO

Level 6

17,064 points

Jan 15, 2008 10:08 AM in response to Mark Gaipo

I regret it has not proven possible to resolve the problem, though as a second choice, learning something of the issues is not a bad outcome!

I must admit that if the base station and mini were in my office right now, I'd test connectivity and signal with the devices around 3 feet apart and all other systems turned off to minimize interference and noise, and then match that with my trusty standard, the G4 powermac with 11b Airport card, which because of it's slower speed and better range, tends to give a good benchmark. Moving the mini and base station around, by distances of no more than maybe 12 inches at a time would help understand the fluctuations in signal and connectivity, before gradually widening the range (and including separating structures) to determine at what point the signal degrades to the point of unreliability.

I suspect you may have already found that point, at a range of 5 feet or less with the Airport Express not resolving the issue, in which case the mini really can be the only real suspect! Trouble is though that testing in any other environment merely introduces other factors you don't have, and removes some you do, so beware results other people may get! Given the nature of the spectrum wifi uses and the power levels, it's worth remembering that even under fairly optimal conditions, wifi is never really much above what would in many other areas of radio technology, be considered 'marginal'. In effect that means that almost anything in the mini that helps degrade the signal will have a fairly notable impact on signal and connectivity, even if it seems minor, such as an antenna connection which seems tight, but isn't fully pressed home!

Mac Mini Airport Sporadic Reception