Level 1

10 points

Comcast "traffic management" blocks Extend mode of AirPort Express 'n' ???

In another thread, I posted that I was unable to access the Internet using my AirPort Express 'n' to Extend my AirPort Extreme 'n'. With the AirPort Express 'n' in the Extend mode, computers connected to it, either wirelessly or via the Ethernet port, were unable to access the Internet, even though the Network preferences of the computer showed that it had a valid IP address, and the Network preferences Diagnostics indicated that the connection appeared to be working correctly and showed all green status lights. This problem occurred only in the Extend mode of an AirPort Express 'n', and regardless of whether the AirPort Extreme 'n' being extended was in the 5.0 GHz 'n' only mode, the 2.4 GHz 'n' only mode, or the 'n' (b/g compatible) mode. Both AirPorts were running the latest firmware version 7.3.1, all IP and DNS information was verified to be correct, and OpenDNS addresses were tried with no effect on the problem.

In this previous thread, three other people reported the same problem with the same symptoms, and two people reported that they were NOT having the problem and that they WERE able to access the Internet with their AirPort Express 'n' in the Extend mode. Of the people reporting the same problem, ALL reported that their ISP was Comcast. Of the people reporting that their Extend mode WAS working, ALL reported that their ISP was NOT Comcast.

This seemed like too much of a coincidence to ignore, so I have started this thread to see whether or not other people are experiencing the same problem with their AirPort Express 'n' in the Extend mode and to see what ISP they are using.

Here are the results from the previous thread, and I will keep a running total of any new results reported.

People with Comcast ISP whose Extend mode is NOT working --- 4
GARYsParries
devasolomon
Boston Dog
dannym098

People with Comcast ISP whose Extend mode IS working --- 0

People without Comcast ISP whose Extend mode is NOT working --- 0

People without Comcast ISP whose Extend mode IS working --- 2
cardsdoc
MusicMan0725

For those of you that have not been keeping up with the news reports about the Comcast "traffic management" issue, Comcast has been accused by BitTorrent and the FCC of conducting unfair practices to manage their Internet traffic for the purpose of keeping traffic flowing smoothly. As a result, Comcast has agreed to discontinue these practices by the end of 2008.

MacBook Pro 17" Core Duo, Mac OS X (10.5.2)

Posted on Apr 5, 2008 6:43 AM

237 replies

GARYsParries Author

Level 1

10 points

Apr 14, 2008 2:23 PM in response to kirreip

Thank you for all the information, Kirreip. I understood everything perfectly. It seems that you are experiencing the exact same problem as Comcast users, with the exception that you are able to get to some Internet sites, just not the ones in the US. I wonder if, by chance, your ISP uses Comcast for all its US traffic? 🙂

I will still be curious to see the results of your Network Diagnostics test. It is probably going to give you the same results we are getting. Do you plan to try the solution offered by ArikF? That seems to have potential.

Apr 15, 2008 7:03 AM in response to GARYsParries

I followed ArikF's settings and was unable to establish an Internet connection with any of my devices (a PS3, DirecTV DVR, Mac Mini, or Xbox 360.

The AX provides LAN connectivity to my other computers, but no DNS for the Internet. 😟

kirreip

Level 1

60 points

Apr 15, 2008 7:57 AM in response to GARYsParries

Ok, I just tried the network diagnostics test. It tells me that everything is ok (all lights are green)
And then I tried the solution offered by Arik and all other settings I could think of in terms of setting IP adresses (inside/outside the DHCP range) I also tried to set my Router (Netopia) a DHCP range of xxx.yyy.33-63 and my AP extreme to xxx.yyy.64-200. It did not help either.
I have even set my Router (Netopia) to be only a modem and the let my AP extreme to do be the router.

Nothing helped. I guess we just have to wait until Apple gives us a firmware update.

GARYsParries Author

Level 1

10 points

Apr 15, 2008 9:21 AM in response to GARYsParries

With Arik's solution, I know from unrelated experience that it is very important that the DHCP setting be set to 'Manual' (not 'DHCP with manual address' for example), and that the static IP address be chosen outside the DHCP range, but it seems that you both (John and Kirreip) followed those settings to the letter. So what now?

Because '84. a Comcast subscriber, was able to use an Airport Extreme to extend an Airport Express, with the Airport Extreme being able to access the Internet, but not the Airport Express, I am tempted to purchase another Airport Extreme to extend my existing Airport Extreme and see if that eliminates the problem. I will wait until this weekend before making the purchase, to see if anything new develops. I will also try Arik's solution with that setup.

We are also waiting to hear the results of a bug report that '84 sent to Apple.

Here are the results we have, thus far, from the 12 people who have reported their experience using an Airport Express 'n' in Extend mode.

People with Comcast ISP whose Extend mode is NOT working --- 7
GARYsParries
devasolomon
Boston Dog
dannym098
JasoninaJeep
John Finley
Since_1984 *

People without Comcast ISP whose Extend mode IS working --- 3
cardsdoc
MusicMan0725
Wurz72

People with Comcast ISP whose Extend mode IS working --- 1 **
ArikF

People without Comcast ISP whose Extend mode is NOT working --- 1 *
Kirreip

*Since_1984, a Comcast subscriber, was able to access the Internet on an Airport Extreme extending an Airport Express, but not on the Airport Express being extended, and is waiting to hear from Apple after submitting a bug report.

**ArikF, a Comcast subscriber, was able to extend a Linksys router with an Airport Express, but only after changing the DHCP to Manual and setting a static IP address outside the DHCP range. So far, no one has been able to duplicate that success.

*Kirreip from Switzerland, not a Comcast subscriber, is experiencing similar Extend mode problems, but was able to access non US Internet sites, just not US sites. I wonder if somehow the Swiss ISP is routing their US traffic through Comcast? 🙂

Message was edited by: GARYsParries

kirreip

Level 1

60 points

Apr 15, 2008 5:06 PM in response to GARYsParries

GARYsParries wrote:
Because '84. a Comcast subscriber, was able to use an Airport Extreme to extend an Airport Express, with the Airport Extreme being able to access the Internet, but not the Airport Express, I am tempted to purchase another Airport Extreme to extend my existing Airport Extreme and see if that eliminates the problem. I will wait until this weekend before making the purchase, to see if anything new develops. I will also try Arik's solution with that setup.

Ok, just keep us informed about your purchase of the other AP extreme.

Apr 16, 2008 11:47 AM in response to GARYsParries

I was able to get ZDNET to cover our issue and hopefully bring about a resolution either through Apple or Comcast. Please give the article a "thumbs up" so it's viewership attracts the attention of the "big guys."

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Apple/?p=1576

Thanks!

--John

GARYsParries Author

Level 1

10 points

Apr 16, 2008 6:25 PM in response to GARYsParries

I should have another Airport Extreme by Sunday. Maybe ZDNET will come through in the meantime.

Apr 16, 2008 9:30 PM in response to GARYsParries

Hey Guys, Add another Comcast user to the list of "Doesn't Work"
My setup is a bit strange:
• Internet coming in to a Linksys WRT54GL Router, Broadcasting a 2.4GHz signal (works.)
• Airport Extreme wired to the Linksys, Broadcasting a 5GHz n "Wide Channel" signal (works.) (DHCP + NAT turned off)
• Airport Express down the hall, wirelessly "extending" the signal to my room. (kind of works.)

By "kind of works" i mean, I am able to see all computers connected to the network (through the linksys or otherwise) as well as connect to my time machine backup connected to the extreme (and back up quite quickly.. yay!) All access to the internet is denied when connected to the express.

Lame!

GARYsParries Author

Level 1

10 points

Apr 17, 2008 7:05 AM in response to GARYsParries

Alfred, as you say, a bit of a strange setup, but still a Comcast user with an Airport Express 'n' being used in an extended network where the Express can access its local network without problems, but cannot access the Internet, even though (I presume) your Network Diagnostics shows an IP address and indicates that the connection to your Airport Express is operating correctly with all green status lights. Based on this, I will most definitely add you to the list. Thanks for the info. Be sure to check back Sunday or Monday when I get my second Airport Extreme to test if the problem is isolated to the Express.

Here are the results we have, thus far, from the 13 people who have reported their experience using an Airport Express 'n' in Extend mode.

People with Comcast ISP whose Extend mode is NOT working --- 8
GARYsParries
devasolomon
Boston Dog
dannym098
JasoninaJeep
John Finley
Since_1984 *
Alfred Maiorano

People without Comcast ISP whose Extend mode IS working --- 3
cardsdoc
MusicMan0725
Wurz72

People with Comcast ISP whose Extend mode IS working --- 1 **
ArikF

People without Comcast ISP whose Extend mode is NOT working --- 1 *
Kirreip

*Since_1984, a Comcast subscriber, was able to access the Internet on an Airport Extreme extending an Airport Express, but not on the Airport Express being extended, and is waiting to hear from Apple after submitting a bug report.

**ArikF, a Comcast subscriber, was able to extend a Linksys router with an Airport Express, but only after changing the DHCP to Manual and setting a static IP address outside the DHCP range. So far, no one has been able to duplicate that success.

*Kirreip from Switzerland, not a Comcast subscriber, is experiencing similar Extend mode problems, but was able to access non US Internet sites, just not US sites. I wonder if somehow the Swiss ISP is routing their US traffic through Comcast? 🙂

Apr 17, 2008 3:13 PM in response to GARYsParries

I have Comcast and I am unable to access the internet in Extend mode, either wirelessly or through ethernet. I have the AEBS(n) and AX(n) in N mode with b/g support.

My Mac pro is connected to the AX via ethernet and in extend mode it can see other computers in the network, but it CANT access the internet.

In order for my Mac Pro to get access to the internet I have to set my AX to Join existing Network and select the option to allow ethernet connection, but with this option selected I cant see computers on the network.

GARYsParries Author

Level 1

10 points

Apr 17, 2008 6:31 PM in response to Salvador Ruiz

Thanks, Sal. That sounds all too familiar, for both the Extend mode and the Join mode. I will add your name to the list on the next update.

Apr 18, 2008 5:04 PM in response to GARYsParries

Gary,
I spoke to a very knowledgeable comcast technician who was at my friends house fixing internet at my friends house and I told him of our situation and about the throttling and traffic management. He was telling me that he hasnt heard anything about that, and that comcast doesnt concern themselves what you do after you connect to your modem. He seemed very curious and gave him links to our discussion so he could further investigate it as well. He also told me a secret that they are testing 8 upload and 8 download 🙂 should be interesting.

granny E

Level 1

0 points

Apr 18, 2008 7:18 PM in response to GARYsParries

I thought I was just dense about the directions. Had all green lights and I still couldn't get the internet I fiddled with it and now base station is flashing amber.As you can tell I can access internet by ethernet/comcast. Comcast refused to help with the airport saying I had "3rd party router."
Even with the green lights, I never got an internet connection. the icon in my information bar thinks I'm connected!
Comcast box is Digital broadband, RCA by Thompson. Have Airport card 405.1 installed.
The end of 2008 for a fix is too late for me. I am not getting any younger!

Apr 19, 2008 2:26 AM in response to GARYsParries

Add another poor sucker to your list... I am having the exact same problem as you guys (no internet, but internal network is fine), and honestly it's a big relief to hear I'm not the only one. I also have Comcast and have had other intermittent problems with their service, but I'm still a little skeptical that they are the problem, unless it's just something about the way the Airport Extreme is interfacing with the Motorola modem that Comcast uses. As far as the service itself, it doesn't seem likely that Comcast could really be at fault (although I hate to defend such a miserable service provider).

I've spent hours on the phone with Apple support over this issue, and they just scratch their heads and say "wow, that's weird". I've also exchanged the Express for another new unit, just to be sure. The last Apple tech I talked to asked me to bring in both Airport devices into the Genius Bar to try to replicate the problem. Not a bad idea, so I went ahead and brought in my gear. We set up the units the same way I'd been testing them at home - with the Airport Extreme plugged into their AppleStore LAN for the "WAN" connection, and with my MacBook Pro plugged into the Express via ethernet (Airport radio turned off). Without reconfiguring anything, the setup *WORKED FINE*. No issues whatsoever! So I packed them up and took them home, only to have the problem come back immediately once I set them up again. Argh!

It doesn't seem to matter what mode the radios are operating in - B/G, N, A/N, etc. However, I've found that if I turn OFF the WPA encryption completely (wide open network with no password) then everything works fine! Unfortunately, this only lasts for a couple days before the connection stops working, and I didn't like the idea of an open network anyway. The internet connection doesn't work for me either in "Extend a Network" mode or "Join a Network" mode. No dice either way.

Another interesting thing - I'm trying to use the two Airport devices to create a wireless-N 5GHz-only network between my office and living room so I have a nice fat connection for streaming media, etc. I have my older D-Link router running in "bridge mode" to provide a secondary wireless-G 2.4GHz network for my girlfriend's older MacBook and my iPhone. If I tell the Airport Express to "Join" the wireless-G network, everything is just peachy, but of course I lose a lot of speed.

There has to be a solution out there somewhere!! *Apple, fix your gear!!!!*

GARYsParries Author

Level 1

10 points

Apr 19, 2008 11:38 AM in response to GARYsParries

So much frustration.

Danny, here are just a couple of the many links to the Comcast issue.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080416/apon_hi_te/internetregulation

http://news.wired.com/dynamic/stories/C/COMCASTFILESHARING?SITE=WIRE&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

Granny, although you did not specifically say, I assume you are trying to connect your computer to an Airport Express base station that is being used in the Extend mode, because the Extend mode is the only mode that has this problem. If you are NOT using your Airport Express in the Extend mode, then you may have an unrelated problem, which more than likely can be easily solved. If you ARE using your Airport Express in the Extend mode, please let us know so that I can add your username to the list ... and welcome to the club. 🙂

SoundDroid, right you are. It's only the 'n' speeds of the Extend mode that cause the problem, which seems to point to Comcast's "traffic management" practices. My thinking is that this problem is an unforeseen side effect of those practices. FYI, the WDS remote mode works even better than the Join mode, but it only runs at 'g' speeds. Regarding your suggestion that it may just be an 'interface' problem between Airport and Motorola, I can't argue with you there. In fact, I will be purchasing another Airport Extreme tonight to extend my existing Airport Extreme, thinking that the 'interface' problem might be limited to the Airport Express. I will keep you posted. Have you tried Arik's solution?

Here are the results we have, thus far, from the 15 people who have reported their experience using an Airport Express 'n' in Extend mode.

People with Comcast ISP whose Extend mode is NOT working --- 10
GARYsParries
devasolomon
Boston Dog
dannym098
JasoninaJeep
John Finley
Since_1984 *
Alfred Maiorano
Salvador Ruiz Jr
sounddroid

People without Comcast ISP whose Extend mode IS working --- 3
cardsdoc
MusicMan0725
Wurz72

People with Comcast ISP whose Extend mode IS working --- 1 **
ArikF

People without Comcast ISP whose Extend mode is NOT working --- 1 *
Kirreip

*Since_1984, a Comcast subscriber, was able to access the Internet on an Airport Extreme extending an Airport Express, but not on the Airport Express being extended, and is waiting to hear from Apple after submitting a bug report.

**ArikF, a Comcast subscriber, was able to extend a Linksys router with an Airport Express, but only after changing the DHCP to Manual and setting a static IP address outside the DHCP range. So far, no one has been able to duplicate that success.

*Kirreip from Switzerland, not a Comcast subscriber, is experiencing similar Extend mode problems, but was able to access non US Internet sites, just not US sites. I wonder if somehow the Swiss ISP is routing their US traffic through Comcast?

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Comcast "traffic management" blocks Extend mode of AirPort Express 'n' ???