Level 1

10 points

Comcast "traffic management" blocks Extend mode of AirPort Express 'n' ???

In another thread, I posted that I was unable to access the Internet using my AirPort Express 'n' to Extend my AirPort Extreme 'n'. With the AirPort Express 'n' in the Extend mode, computers connected to it, either wirelessly or via the Ethernet port, were unable to access the Internet, even though the Network preferences of the computer showed that it had a valid IP address, and the Network preferences Diagnostics indicated that the connection appeared to be working correctly and showed all green status lights. This problem occurred only in the Extend mode of an AirPort Express 'n', and regardless of whether the AirPort Extreme 'n' being extended was in the 5.0 GHz 'n' only mode, the 2.4 GHz 'n' only mode, or the 'n' (b/g compatible) mode. Both AirPorts were running the latest firmware version 7.3.1, all IP and DNS information was verified to be correct, and OpenDNS addresses were tried with no effect on the problem.

In this previous thread, three other people reported the same problem with the same symptoms, and two people reported that they were NOT having the problem and that they WERE able to access the Internet with their AirPort Express 'n' in the Extend mode. Of the people reporting the same problem, ALL reported that their ISP was Comcast. Of the people reporting that their Extend mode WAS working, ALL reported that their ISP was NOT Comcast.

This seemed like too much of a coincidence to ignore, so I have started this thread to see whether or not other people are experiencing the same problem with their AirPort Express 'n' in the Extend mode and to see what ISP they are using.

Here are the results from the previous thread, and I will keep a running total of any new results reported.

People with Comcast ISP whose Extend mode is NOT working --- 4
GARYsParries
devasolomon
Boston Dog
dannym098

People with Comcast ISP whose Extend mode IS working --- 0

People without Comcast ISP whose Extend mode is NOT working --- 0

People without Comcast ISP whose Extend mode IS working --- 2
cardsdoc
MusicMan0725

For those of you that have not been keeping up with the news reports about the Comcast "traffic management" issue, Comcast has been accused by BitTorrent and the FCC of conducting unfair practices to manage their Internet traffic for the purpose of keeping traffic flowing smoothly. As a result, Comcast has agreed to discontinue these practices by the end of 2008.

MacBook Pro 17" Core Duo, Mac OS X (10.5.2)

Posted on Apr 5, 2008 6:43 AM

237 replies

GARYsParries Author

Level 1

10 points

May 3, 2008 6:28 PM in response to bobjandrews

Just curious, who is your ISP?

Zachery

Level 1

10 points

May 3, 2008 7:48 PM in response to GARYsParries

I thought I was seeing an issue like this, thinking it was the ISP. It has to be something wrong with the extended link. All an extended link is is a WDS system setup automatically for you, nothing more. I went in, after seeing exactly the same problems described earlier in this thread (even the traceroutes another user posted looked like that...) and shut off the extending feature, and instead, setup a WDS manually. Everything works fine this way.

So, solution = setup WDS manually, apparently.

kfipp

Community Moderator

May 3, 2008 10:08 PM in response to Zachery

Let me start by saying i have comcast. I thought I would add my experience to this post. I've noticed and confirmed that after the 7.3.1 firmware update to the airport express you are able to set it up to "join" your existing 802.11n extreme network as a wireless client and if you go into the manual settings (airport>wireless tab) for the express you can check a box that says "allow clients over Ethernet." This allows the express to connect at N speeds (tests on an N only 5gh network with wpa2 encryption) and does seem to work as an ethernet bridge to allow access to the internet via the "lan" port on the express. This does however not act as a wireless extension of the extreme's network at the same time however. It seems highly likely that the addition of this new functionality seems to have broken the airport expresses previous ability to act as it had when you choose to extend the range of an 802.11n network. Either that or it's an omission of some kind. Either way it's pretty annoying.

GARYsParries Author

Level 1

10 points

May 4, 2008 6:39 AM in response to GARYsParries

Zach, if only it were that easy. As you say, setting up a WDS network works fine ... until you check your speed. WDS operates ONLY up to 'g' speeds. If you want 'n' speeds, you MUST use the Extend mode. Therein lies the problem. So far, the only users that have been able to get an Airport Express to extend an Airport Extreme are NON Comcast users; however, your conclusion that the problem is with the Express may still be valid, because one Comcast user (me) has been able to use an Airport Extreme to extend another Airport Extreme.

kfipp, if it makes you feel any better, you are in the exact same boat as all other Comcast users; namely, using the Airport Express in the Join mode works perfectly for accessing the Internet, but not for accessing your local network, whereas, using the Airport Express in the Extend mode works perfectly for accessing your local network, but not for accessing the Internet.

FYI, one Comcast user, Scott Hurley, was able to successfully use an Airport Express to extend a Time Capsule, but was unable to use an Airport Extreme to extend the very same Time Capsule, so the problem might not be entirely with the Express. 🙂

May 4, 2008 2:46 PM in response to GARYsParries

Can we confirm that as far as the network architecture goes, you actually CAN extend the network with an express. Meaning that network resources are accessible and the device shows a green light, but actual internet access does not seem to be extended (as any computer connected through the device simply times out any request).

GARYsParries Author

Level 1

10 points

May 4, 2008 4:16 PM in response to stevecorby

Steve, that is correct. If you run Airport Utility, it shows that the extended Airport Extreme and extending Airport Express are wireless clients of each other, with each showing a green status light. If you connect a computer, either wirelessly or via Ethernet, to the extending Airport Express, you can access any clients of the extended Airport Extreme, and if you run the connected computer's Network Diagnostics, it shows that the connection is operating correctly with a valid IP address and all green status lights, but then, when you try to access the Internet from the connected computer, it just hangs for a while and times out.

May 5, 2008 12:25 PM in response to GARYsParries

Since I've tried a number of congifurations, here's where I've replicated the described problem so far.
-Time Capsule extending an Airport Extreme network (with security enabled)
-Airport Extreme extending a Time Capsule network (with security enabled)
-Airport Express "N" extending an Airport Extreme network (with security enabled)
-Aiport Exteme extending an Airport Express network (with secuity enabled)

Situations that work--
-All of the above with no security enabled.
-Airport Extreme extending an Airport Extreme network (with security enabled)
-Airport Express "N" extending a Time Capsule with secutiy (havn't tried this myself, but I think someone on this forum mentioned they got this working).

Judging by these results, the problem only occurs when an Airport Extreme is used in conjuction with a Time Capsule or Express. There must be some sort of bug between the older Extremes and the newer TC and Expresses.

Still waiting on a response from the Apple Product Specialist that I spoke with last weekend....

GARYsParries Author

Level 1

10 points

May 5, 2008 5:59 PM in response to stevecorby

Steve, that's a great summary, and your conclusion that the problem is with the older Extremes interfacing with the newer TCs and Expresses makes a lot of sense. One way to test that theory is to see if one Express can extend another Express; however, the only person on this thread that has two Expresses is Since_1984. Are you still out there '84?

FYI Steve, sounddroid previously posted on this thread that running the network with no security worked only temporarily, and that the problem returned after a few days.

dmr001

Level 1

4 points

May 6, 2008 7:15 PM in response to dmr001

To follow up -
Updating the firmware on my DSL modem (a Netgear DG834G V1) to V3.01.25 fixed this problem for me - using an Airport Express (at 5GHz, in extend mode, extending the network from an Airport Extreme Base Station) now works fine, properly routing packets out onto the Internet. So, at least in my case, this did not appear to be an Apple bug.

GARYsParries Author

Level 1

10 points

May 6, 2008 7:39 PM in response to dmr001

DMR, your experience is consistent with the other NON Comcast users on this thread, all of whom have had some success, if not complete success, using an Express to extend an Extreme. So, if the problem is an Apple bug, it is somehow restricted to Comcast users.

May 7, 2008 1:20 PM in response to GARYsParries

Hi Gary you can add me to the list as a Comcast person with this problem.

Guess you forgot me from my earlier thread http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1472035

Why's it taking Apple so long to resolve?

GARYsParries Author

Level 1

10 points

May 7, 2008 3:29 PM in response to GARYsParries

Hi Dana, sorry I missed your thread. As you can see, I've been pretty busy with this one.

I don't know when Apple will resolve this problem. I'm not even absolutely sure that it is 'their' problem.

One thing I do know, if you are in a rush to get an extended network going, you can return your Express and purchase a second Extreme to extend your first Extreme, as I did. This arrangement works perfectly. It costs a bit more, but I have noticed the advantage of a stronger wireless signal coming from the Extreme compared to the Express. Plus you get some extra LAN ports ... but sadly, no iTunes streaming.

If you are not in a rush, then stay tuned. I'm sure help is on the way.

P.S. In case you are thinking of returning your Express and purchasing a Time Capsule, a TC and Extreme will not work together, only a TC and Express.

ErnoV

Level 1

0 points

May 8, 2008 4:24 AM in response to GARYsParries

I am 99.99% sure that Airport Extreme & Express have a bug in their firmware and that is causing this problem. Maybe something to do with how the hardware solves routing the network packets? I bet the engineers at Apple are aware of this issue...

My ADSL modem is across the room from my computer table and my wife strongly objects any extra cabling. So I've solved the issue by creating a wireless bridge with two wifi routers across the room. My other Linksys box cocked up after five years of operation so I decided to buy an Airport Extreme (April 08) so I could also connect a backup USB disk to it. Extreme didn't work with the Linksys so I bought an Express so that I could also stream music to my stereo next to the ADSL box.

Unfortunately the setup doesn't work correctly. Internet is frustratingly slow and some addresses won't work. Internal network is fine/fast and I can also stream music and backup to the USB disk connected to the Extreme. Ping is good and name services are allright. I have tried all possible encryptions and extending Extreme with Express and vice versa.

I live in Finland and similar setup with Linksyses has worked so it is not an ISP (Comcast or other) specific issue.

-Erno

jseg2005

Level 1

40 points

May 8, 2008 7:00 AM in response to ErnoV

I am sorry I am a little late responding, my move was a little rougher than expected. Anyways... I have some interesting information I have found which I will post tomorrow, I just have a few minutes to post this. I can say right now however that the chances this is an apple issue are very low. I have an extended range network that worked fine on AT&T but on comcast it does not, all I did was hook up the modem after the comcast was installed and run some tests. Ping routing works fine up to the internet port. I will be calling in tomorrow with a detailed list of the tests I have done and report back as soon as I have an answer and get get it all typed up... Very interesting issue...

GARYsParries Author

Level 1

10 points

May 8, 2008 8:01 AM in response to GARYsParries

Erno, yours does not sound like the same issue that Comcast users are having. A slow Internet connection is not one of the symptoms, just no Internet connection at all. What you are experiencing sounds more like what Kirreip (a NON Comcast user in Switzerland), and E.O. and Jseg (both AT&T users) posted on this thread. However, it all may be related. It will be interesting to see, if and when this problem gets resolved, if that resolves your problem as well.

Jseg, I was wondering what happened to you. Can't wait to hear the details of your switch to Comcast. From what you've said so far, it sounds EXACTLY like what other Comcast users are experiencing.

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Comcast "traffic management" blocks Extend mode of AirPort Express 'n' ???